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I'm going to restate this just once more. Look at as a practical business decision and put your facts in order and on paper.
Go out and look at a few places and find the place you'd like to move to.
On paper do a comparison of expenses in columns of the current house verses a new one. (You can get the average monthly utilitiy payments on a new house if it is still inhabited).
Go line by line and itemize, putting the amount of cost for each one and the property taxes and to repair (some may be zero), kitchen, bedrooms, bathrooms, furnance, airconditioner, appliances, windows, roof, doors and utilities etc. Put these numbers next to each other. It will take some work on your part, but if you are serious I see no other way than to do this. Call the bank and get the pay off amount on your house if he won't tell you. Include this vs. the cost of the new home. Also include how you will finance this new home, interest rate and monthly payment. Don't forget the cost of moving.
Unless you have concrete facts in black and white in hand like this it will continue to be an arguement that goes no where.
Urban Dude, I'm not sure why you're so upset but I assure you, I'm quite level headed. Your posts show the limitations of a forum. To write out all the contingencies and conversations would take many pages. This is the Reader's Digest version and not all "he said/she said" dialogue will fit here.
Part of the problem is, YES, he wanted the house and the day before we wrote a contract, I exacted a promise from him that I would NOT be the one doing the repairs to the house, and that we'd hire contractors to do the work. I did NOT want a project house and I told him that.
He told me (and I quote), "I'm a big boy and I understand the financial ramifications of buying an old house like this."
Nowadays he tells me, "Well, we just don't have the money so you're going to have to do this (project/repair/whatever) yourself. The labor is the expensive part anyway..."
In other words, the terms of our negotiations on this deal took a decided shift *after* we lived here a couple years. I'm into my 50s now. My back aches, my knees hurt and I am no longer able to do house restoration work. I'm *tired* and I want a newer house and I don't want to spend hours every week on major projects. And his contribution to the home's repairs are non-existent. He watches. I work. He thinks that's funny and tells his friends how he likes to watch me work. Annoys the hell out of me.
As to the real estate market, I had the house appraised for sale and we'd lose a little but not a lot. The market here is a little different from other parts of the country. And the work we've done to the house has been good work, increasing its value. Today, we can get out of this old house and into something that's easier to maintain and cheaper to heat.
Whew. Hope I've adequately defended myself. I'm not a whiner, or a baby (as I've been accused of, above). I'm a hard-working woman and I'm ready for a quiet time in life. I am tired of mixing cement and painting walls and cutting boards. I want a house where I can curl up in the sunlight and read a few books.
I'm just worn out, and I want out of this house and out of this work and out of this non-stop heavy duty maintenance.
Urban Dude, I'm not sure why you're so upset but I assure you, I'm quite level headed. Your posts show the limitations of a forum. To write out all the contingencies and conversations would take many pages. This is the Reader's Digest version and not all "he said/she said" dialogue will fit here.
Part of the problem is, YES, he wanted the house and the day before we wrote a contract, I exacted a promise from him that I would NOT be the one doing the repairs to the house, and that we'd hire contractors to do the work. I did NOT want a project house and I told him that.
He told me (and I quote), "I'm a big boy and I understand the financial ramifications of buying an old house like this."
Nowadays he tells me, "Well, we just don't have the money so you're going to have to do this (project/repair/whatever) yourself. The labor is the expensive part anyway..."
In other words, the terms of our negotiations on this deal took a decided shift *after* we lived here a couple years. I'm into my 50s now. My back aches, my knees hurt and I am no longer able to do house restoration work. I'm *tired* and I want a newer house and I don't want to spend hours every week on major projects. And his contribution to the home's repairs are non-existent. He watches. I work. He thinks that's funny and tells his friends how he likes to watch me work. Annoys the hell out of me.
As to the real estate market, I had the house appraised for sale and we'd lose a little but not a lot. The market here is a little different from other parts of the country. And the work we've done to the house has been good work, increasing its value. Today, we can get out of this old house and into something that's easier to maintain and cheaper to heat.
Whew. Hope I've adequately defended myself. I'm not a whiner, or a baby (as I've been accused of, above). I'm a hard-working woman and I'm ready for a quiet time in life. I am tired of mixing cement and painting walls and cutting boards. I want a house where I can curl up in the sunlight and read a few books.
I'm just worn out, and I want out of this house and out of this work and out of this non-stop heavy duty maintenance.
Unless you paid a certified appraiser, the "value" that you would get for the house from a real estate agent to get you to list with them is completely different.
You may be worn out on repairs but that doesn't mean that you won't have problems in the next house or condo that you move into.
If the problem is larger than just the fact that you are tired of working and he doesn't help you at all then you need to examine the possible deeper issue in the marriage.
I think the bigger issue here is not the house itself, it's you two. He agreed to have repairs done by contractors, and you told him you weren't up for doing them yourself. Now, he has reneged on that promise, and you are getting resentful, b/c the maintenance is not getting done. And to rub salt on an open wound, he finds it amusing when you try to fix things yourself.
Can't you just hire contractors yourself? Or do you not have that kind of "power" in your relationship? If that were me, I'd tell my husband how much it angered me that he finds it funny, that I am busting my butt trying to fix things he promised we'd get done with help. I'd tell him that I can't continue like this - either I hire a contractor to do this, or I'm moving out and you can let the house fall down around you. And I'd hire a contractor the next day. If he balked, I'd pack my bags and move out - find a hotel, a friend, family member, whatever.
Urban Dude, I'm not sure why you're so upset but I assure you, I'm quite level headed. Your posts show the limitations of a forum. To write out all the contingencies and conversations would take many pages. This is the Reader's Digest version and not all "he said/she said" dialogue will fit here.
Part of the problem is, YES, he wanted the house and the day before we wrote a contract, I exacted a promise from him that I would NOT be the one doing the repairs to the house, and that we'd hire contractors to do the work. I did NOT want a project house and I told him that.
He told me (and I quote), "I'm a big boy and I understand the financial ramifications of buying an old house like this."
Nowadays he tells me, "Well, we just don't have the money so you're going to have to do this (project/repair/whatever) yourself. The labor is the expensive part anyway..."
In other words, the terms of our negotiations on this deal took a decided shift *after* we lived here a couple years. I'm into my 50s now. My back aches, my knees hurt and I am no longer able to do house restoration work. I'm *tired* and I want a newer house and I don't want to spend hours every week on major projects. And his contribution to the home's repairs are non-existent. He watches. I work. He thinks that's funny and tells his friends how he likes to watch me work. Annoys the hell out of me.
As to the real estate market, I had the house appraised for sale and we'd lose a little but not a lot. The market here is a little different from other parts of the country. And the work we've done to the house has been good work, increasing its value. Today, we can get out of this old house and into something that's easier to maintain and cheaper to heat.
Whew. Hope I've adequately defended myself. I'm not a whiner, or a baby (as I've been accused of, above). I'm a hard-working woman and I'm ready for a quiet time in life. I am tired of mixing cement and painting walls and cutting boards. I want a house where I can curl up in the sunlight and read a few books.
I'm just worn out, and I want out of this house and out of this work and out of this non-stop heavy duty maintenance.
Here's the comment I made yesterday on another thread about why do people get divorced: People get divorced because they forget, or no longer care to remember, that they are a team.
You and your husband have got to start functioning as a TEAM! Start with the things you do agree on and work to find others you can come closer to compromising on.
Please warn him that people who dig their heels in and refuse to meet their partner halfway are not being team players and are all but announcing that they would rather be right than happily married.
Urban Dude, I'm not sure why you're so upset but I assure you, I'm quite level headed. Your posts show the limitations of a forum. To write out all the contingencies and conversations would take many pages. This is the Reader's Digest version and not all "he said/she said" dialogue will fit here.
Part of the problem is, YES, he wanted the house and the day before we wrote a contract, I exacted a promise from him that I would NOT be the one doing the repairs to the house, and that we'd hire contractors to do the work. I did NOT want a project house and I told him that.
He told me (and I quote), "I'm a big boy and I understand the financial ramifications of buying an old house like this."
Nowadays he tells me, "Well, we just don't have the money so you're going to have to do this (project/repair/whatever) yourself. The labor is the expensive part anyway..."
In other words, the terms of our negotiations on this deal took a decided shift *after* we lived here a couple years. I'm into my 50s now. My back aches, my knees hurt and I am no longer able to do house restoration work. I'm *tired* and I want a newer house and I don't want to spend hours every week on major projects. And his contribution to the home's repairs are non-existent. He watches. I work. He thinks that's funny and tells his friends how he likes to watch me work. Annoys the hell out of me.
As to the real estate market, I had the house appraised for sale and we'd lose a little but not a lot. The market here is a little different from other parts of the country. And the work we've done to the house has been good work, increasing its value. Today, we can get out of this old house and into something that's easier to maintain and cheaper to heat.
Whew. Hope I've adequately defended myself. I'm not a whiner, or a baby (as I've been accused of, above). I'm a hard-working woman and I'm ready for a quiet time in life. I am tired of mixing cement and painting walls and cutting boards. I want a house where I can curl up in the sunlight and read a few books.
I'm just worn out, and I want out of this house and out of this work and out of this non-stop heavy duty maintenance.
And with all due respect the story you paint here is a very different story than your first post -- very different with regard to your husband's behaviour.
NOW the approach shifts. While you're correct that a forum can limit one's explanations and/or story, if you were seeing that $125 per hour counselor, you wouldn't give them ONLY the information you provided in your first post, you'd give them this information too -- because from the first post's "gee, you need to do a little growing up, it seems" directed toward you, you've now offered indications that this is more of a "Whoa there, pal, something is VERY wrong with this program" that needs to be directed toward your husband.
NOW then...
Given THIS information, I can't tell you to do something as careless or as passive-aggressive as simply allowing the house to fall apart. I know what it's like to try the hands-off approach and it will make YOU crazy in the end, not him.
First and foremost, I don't know whether your husband is incompetent when it comes to household repair and work, or just lazy and mean-spirited. I have difficulty referring to anyone who would brag to others that they enjoyed watching someone else work on their domicile as "a man".
Second, that being said (not to mention being unproductive since you still have to deal with it), try this, because I'm going to tell you how to approach this with men -- and for better or worse you WILL manage to get an answer of sorts, whether it's the answer you want or not:
The next time he's standing and watching you work on something with the house, have a spare *whatever* there, be it brush, spackler, scraper, gouger, hammer -- whatever work it is you're doing at the time.
When he's standing there, don't get a disgusted look on your face, although I understand fully that you'll be fighting not to do so. Instead just casually say "Hey, grab that [object] and... look, see here how I'm doing this? Can you do that over there?" When you do this don't make it general, point to a specific spot where whatever you're doing needs to be done.
This is a leadership tactic often used in larger work areas for uncooperative and unproductive workers in the military. When you've beaten your head against a wall begging someone for help and openly TELLING them, this kind of tactic works better because they see you doing so and there's a spare right there. Casually telling them doesn't open channels for defiance.
HOWEVER...
Be prepared for him to say no or make an excuse. In the event this happens, keep your cool and keep right on working, but instead ask him to go get you some water, some form of drink, to start supper -- SOMETHING which provides for some direction and some form of productivity on his part.
Keep it small and simple at first, and most importantly keep it CIVIL, keep the aggravation out of your voice.
It's clear you two have some issues based on the behaviour you describe in your latest post; THAT is what you're working around right now and it won't be easy. Any person who would act the way you're NOW describing is, to put it bluntly, NOT bright enough to work out these issues of their own volition and will need to be led to water before they can drink.
By keeping tasks small at first and by not showing aggravation (which, if you're telling the truth, I suspect he's enjoying for some perverse or personally vindictive reason) what you're doing is familiarizing him with activity around the home.
Small tasks are not intimidating, AND they provide so little reason to resist that a person with even a smattering of conscience feels badly about refusing them. So you teach such people a little bit at a time. Through small-arms psychological warfare.
When you have larger tasks which require more than one person, begin by starting the task yourself while he's around. Do some, enough to show that the task is on its way, and then ask him for some help with something short-term (such as "Can you hold up the other end of this for just a minute?") and non-intimidating -- again, for the same reason, it's difficult for someone to openly refuse.
Once he's around and helping with something, even momentarily, stop when you can and ask his opinion about something. I know this sounds weird and I know you're gritting your teeth on some level, but as I said, if what you stated most recently is true then you're not dealing with a reasonable human being, you're coaxing a bellicose individual into something they don't want to do.
When he offers his opinion, go along with it and then feign some ignorance. Get part of it right (A,B,C,D... and F?) Push it so he has to perform something in order to show you.
All of this -- long and tedious and even arduous, I'll admit; but here's the thing.
Either A) he's coaxed into helping you out around the place, helping you to do some of these things you're probably going to have to do even to sell the place, or B) he's going to outright refuse you and you'll know once and for all that you're locked into something entirely without cooperation and with no hope for resolution.
At that point you've GOT an answer to your question.
And because I know someone who can't read is bound to come back and respond "She shouldn't have to DO all that," allow me to say I already covered that when I said that if her latest post was accurate then this person with whom she's dealing isn't of the most upstanding character or intelligence, so I'm telling her how to deal with an unreasonable person with whom she's basically stuck.
I do apologize for my earlier terse attitude with you, OP, but some of these folks really rub my nethers with sandpaper with their constant, automatic man-bashing and "men are just worthless", self-indulgent attitudes. And also, like it or not, you DID only give half the information necessary to describe your problem. Had you stuck with ONLY that information my response to you would have remained the same.
If you say "I blew my hand off with explosives" I'll call you an idiot for playing with explosives.
If you say "I blew my hand off with explosives because someone threw them at me and I was trying to throw them away" I'll offer kindly and helpful advice.
Lay on the floor with some ketchup on your chest...
Then see what the reaction is when he comes home from work.
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