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Dude, you make it sound as though all those things are just *BAM* - in yo' FACE!
While each of the things you've listed would most certainly BE abuse, less a mere sign, the fact of the matter is that abuse has a tendency to escalate over time, building up to obvious levels. It seldom BEGINS as obviously as the picture you've built, perhaps with the exception of the threats to mutilate the gentiles (KIDDING).
If you want to discuss SIGNS of abusive behaviour in women you might want to point out the subtle clues that lead to the kinds of behaviour you describe rather than suggesting it's a SIGN of an abusive woman if she jumps in your face, screams RAWR and tries to wrestle you to the ground while forcing you to wear lipstick.
Looking back on my own abusive relationship with my ex-wife, I would say that the things you're talking about are true, but they're later-stage, NOT what you look out for if you hope to AVOID that kind of woman.
My ex was very much the mouthy type and did, a few times, make remarks suggesting that if I stood up for myself she would simply wait until I was asleep and cut my dick off. When I would look at her with some expression that suggested I both believed her and WOULD defend myself against any assault, she would laugh it off with "Hey, hey -- relax, I'm just joking! God, why do you have to be so SERIOUS about everything?!?"
It's a behaviour meant to both put you on the defensive AND to emasculate you by accusing you of needless fear and nervousness. If you don't make a defensive posture, she's getting away with threatening you; if you DO make a defensive posture, you're a wuss for being scared of a girl. The perfect Catch-22.
Women who roll their eyes at this need to stop and consider their reaction should a man respond to undesired behaviour by saying "How about I just beat the sh** out of you, huh?" and then play it off as a joke. Given enough negative behaviour on his part you WOULD begin to feel threatened while being made to feel stupid for being scared.
Oh, but that's different, a woman would never actually... Seems to me lots of women have proved that train of thought WRONG over the last 20 years.
My ex was very verbal about the shortcomings of men as a whole. If anything went wrong, anything at all, it was always the fault of stupid males. If SHE made a mistake then she only made it because some man had given her misinformation. If another woman was in the chain before her, it would be traced back as far as necessary to make it the fault of a man. If no man was involved, then oh well, people make mistakes, nothing to get bent out of shape over.
The desire to MAKE all wrong the fault of men is a strong indicator of hate, plain and simple. It manifests most often with instant derision in the face of a male mistake and compassionate understanding with regard to female mistakes. In this line of thinking women have accidents which could happen to anyone, men are just blundering idiots.
My ex separated me from my friends. She did this by never wanting to attend any community events which were centered around my acquaintances and making sure I knew I'd be miserable if I went without her, calling it "uncaring" on my part; yet she was perfectly willing to attend things centered around her own circle of friends. She did this by endlessly griping about activities in which I participated, such as working out. It was 45 minutes a day immediately after work, but it was "too much" for her to kill some time while I maintained my health, and she complained about it until I simply QUIT for a moment's peace of mind.
It's a way of removing one's support network, giving the abuser greater control over one's life -- which is what the abuse is about most of the time. As one's friends and acquaintances slip away through social neglect the abuser steps in as the focus of the abused's life. Invariably it leads to other "shortcomings" on one's part which are also reason for scorn and abuse.
My ex played financial games. We were the same rank, earned the same pay and benefits -- yet when we were on-post and went to the grocery, because we kept separate accounts it immediately became a question of who had some cash on them (this was in the days before debit cards). If I had cash, she grabbed a cart; if she had cash, she grabbed a basket for "essentials". Because she had no respect for me anyway I was apparently supposed to be too stupid to notice.
Financial "lies" take many forms and all lead back to a form of control. If she can spend your money out from under you while maintaining her own, she's got a leg up on you in the contest that exists in her mind.
The list goes on and on, but the initial post in this thread serves very poorly as a warning to the inexperienced without clear examples, and is nothing more than coulda-woulda-shoulda for those who have already endured these things.
Again, the perfect Catch-22. A woman is free to back away, holding up her hands and saying "Hey, lighten up -- it's just a joke! What's your problem, anyway?" Meanwhile, the talk is already OUT there, the perfect defense waiting in the wings.
Garry Trudeau of Doonesbury once wrote about the beauty of political satire, the ability to say what we really think under the guise of humor, to deride and undermine authority figures who were unable to do anything about it because if authority turned a glaring eye to the cartoonist, the ready retreat was always there: Relax, folks; it's just a joke!
A Saturday Night Live skit from many years ago was the perfect expression of this, when Bill Murray said during the opinion portion of the faux-newscast that our Armed Forces should consist entirely of women because it was a no-lose situation. If we defeated any country then said country could never really rise in power again in the eyes of the world, not after being beaten by women, while if we were defeated we could always respond "Yeah, you must be reeeally proud of yourselves, you beat a bunch of girls, aren't you just the big heroes!?!?!"
It's all just humor and I'm just a thin-skinned priss for being wary of it many might think -- but that's because people in general seldom stop to consider the sheer power of words, and NEVER stop to think about the power of words when those words are to their advantage.
All true but these behaviors are not exactly subtle clues!
Yeah, I'd hardly call these warning signs. If your girlfriend does these things and you're thinking, "Hmmm, is this some kind of clue?" then you are DENSE.
I think there really is a problem with women threatening to harm a man's genitals. Its not cool, and I doubt it would be tolerated by anyone, or casually laughed off if it was a threat made toward a woman's genitals...
Women seem to think its cool to constantly threaten to harm genitals...I would like to see this taken less lightly.
No, it's not funny. I wouldn't like a guy telling me he's going to cut out my ovaries while I sleep, so why would he like me saying essentially the same thing to him? Honestly, if I were a guy and a woman said she was going to cut off my ....., that's probably how I'd respond. If she pulls the "oh, I'm just joking!" you could say the same, though for some reason it seems more severe. Chances are, she'd 1) think you're psycho and run away, which is probably for the best, or 2) rethink her "joke" if she's truly trying to be innocent.
No, it's not funny. I wouldn't like a guy telling me he's going to cut out my ovaries while I sleep, so why would he like me saying essentially the same thing to him? Honestly, if I were a guy and a woman said she was going to cut off my ....., that's probably how I'd respond. If she pulls the "oh, I'm just joking!" you could say the same, though for some reason it seems more severe. Chances are, she'd 1) think you're psycho and run away, which is probably for the best, or 2) rethink her "joke" if she's truly trying to be innocent.
You forgot 3) take you to court.
Why? Because as you pointed out, for some reason (which no doubt you can't quite put your finger on) it seems more severe.
That's not a jibe at you, you're correct in your thinking. It's equal action but because we're geared toward preservation of women, a threat against them seems more severe even if it's equal in nature.
I can't really add much more than what Us said in his posts.?
Abusers aren't always obvious.
There's a lot of subtle "behind the scenes" work which goes on with them.
So subtle, that most folk don't even notice.
As US says, they gradually undermine your confidence, then, when they've got you where they want you, they gradually begin a plot to isolate you from family and friends. Because then, you've nobody to talk to, to see how abnormal things are in your world.
They'll even use your own children against you. They'll undermine your authority, say things like "grumpy daddy", "go on,hit grumpy daddy".
Ok, it might sound innocuous, but all the time, this is then being subliminally planted in the kid's brain.
If you say the kid can't have candy, they'll give them it, then they're nicer than you.
They manage to twist things so you feel guilty, like everything's your fault.
Like you deserved it.
My God, you're so lucky to have them, becuse nobody else would want you. How would they put up with you ?
You can't leave, because you'll never have it better !
the abuser will also weave a web of lies with their friends.
They may tell of how they have the patience of a saint to live with such a person.
My ex-wife, on a few of the times we'd split, was telling people that i'd abused her ! She was so plausible, solocitors believed her.
She got a restraining order put against me, because i was passing by the house, and wanted to pick up some stuff, and see my boy.
She told her lawyer I was "harassing" her.
I also had random people contacting me, and threatening me, at first, it took a while to figure out what was going on, then, one noght, the note wrapped around the brick through my wiindow saying "wifebeater" cleared it up !
again, as US says, I could go on all day, there are thousands of ways they do it.
Yes, the OP's list does cover some, but these are barely sctatching the surface.
[quote=Urban Sasquatch;12663178]Dude, you make it sound as though all those things are just *BAM* - in yo' FACE!
While each of the things you've listed would most certainly BE abuse, less a mere sign, the fact of the matter is that abuse has a tendency to escalate over time, building up to obvious levels. It seldom BEGINS as obviously as the picture you've built, perhaps with the exception of the threats to mutilate the gentiles (KIDDING).[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch
It's only a joke, until it's Jaw, meet Fist.
Again, the perfect Catch-22. A woman is free to back away, holding up her hands and saying "Hey, lighten up -- it's just a joke! What's your problem, anyway?" Meanwhile, the talk is already OUT there, the perfect defense waiting in the wings.
I was with an abusive woman in the past. Some of the signs in the OP were there, but I was too stupid, young and naive and I ignored them - until one day she whacked me across the face with an object and blood was streaming out of my face. That's when I woke up and realised this girl could get me killed. I ended up having several stitches above my eye.
The sad part is when my family asked what had happened I just said I had a head injury during a game of football, and it was accidental. I was too afraid and emotionally scarred to tell the truth. Afraid of what? I don't know. I was just scared. I just was not comfortable coming out and telling them I had just been physically abused. I had millions waves of emotions going through me at the time. And I didn't know how to deal with them.
I was with an abusive woman in the past. Some of the signs in the OP were there, but I was too stupid, young and naive and I ignored them - until one day she whacked me across the face with an object and blood was streaming out of my face. That's when I woke up and realised this girl could get me killed. I ended up having several stitches above my eye.
The sad part is when my family asked what had happened I just said I had a head injury during a game of football, and it was accidental. I was too afraid and emotionally scarred to tell the truth. Afraid of what? I don't know. I was just scared. I just was not comfortable coming out and telling them I had just been physically abused. I had millions waves of emotions going through me at the time. And I didn't know how to deal with them.
The "fear" of telling the truth on matters like this comes from the blatant fact that people CAN'T SEEM TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THIS.
- If you complain that she's hitting you, then you're either: A) a baby for whining that "a GIRL is abusing you" or... B) a weakling for letting it happen in the first place when you should be "manly" and just take charge.
- IF you're "manly" and take charge, letting her know this will NOT go on, pretty much the ONLY way out is to leave -- and that opens a HUGE can of potential worms.
- If you DON'T leave, whatever your reason, be it kids, finances or refusal to be driven from your own house, then "you've no one but yourself to blame for staying and taking it".
- If you stay and FORCEFULLY respond to her actions, for the very reason Juniperbleu stated, it's inexplicably WORSE, this thing you've done to HER, and the law is on her side in practice if not in letter.
- If you leave but don't want to leave your children with her, but cannot prove she's an immediate danger to them, you're faced with the charge of parental kidnapping -- and later, in court when you're fighting for custody that's a mark against YOU, not her.
- If kids aren't an issue but you leave, your stuff is still with her for a while, until you can get your situation squared away. I came back and found mine all sold. It wasn't like I had kept photos and a list of items, so it was "community property" and she was well within her rights.
- WHEN you leave, as a man you're options are rather more limited. You're forced to rely on yourself. Yes, there are shelters, but there tend to be far fewer of those for men than for women nationwide.
- The social stigma comes from both men and women. It's well and good for women to point and blame men for not reporting, citing it as their own fault, but these same women simply do not stop to consider how they, themselves, VIEW such men as those "weak" enough to have to report such a thing. You're "weak" if you can't stand up to her, an abuser if you do.
Women have commented in other threads regarding this topic that men just need to get over themselves, as in "swallow whatever it is you're calling pride". I find that remarkably uncompassionate and short-sighted for such "enlightened" individuals who would resent the gender role-reversal with regard to remarks like man up, suck it up, get over yourself.
The "fear" of telling the truth on matters like this comes from the blatant fact that people CAN'T SEEM TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THIS.
- If you complain that she's hitting you, then you're either: A) a baby for whining that "a GIRL is abusing you" or... B) a weakling for letting it happen in the first place when you should be "manly" and just take charge.
- IF you're "manly" and take charge, letting her know this will NOT go on, pretty much the ONLY way out is to leave -- and that opens a HUGE can of potential worms.
- If you DON'T leave, whatever your reason, be it kids, finances or refusal to be driven from your own house, then "you've no one but yourself to blame for staying and taking it".
- If you stay and FORCEFULLY respond to her actions, for the very reason Juniperbleu stated, it's inexplicably WORSE, this thing you've done to HER, and the law is on her side in practice if not in letter.
- If you leave but don't want to leave your children with her, but cannot prove she's an immediate danger to them, you're faced with the charge of parental kidnapping -- and later, in court when you're fighting for custody that's a mark against YOU, not her.
- If kids aren't an issue but you leave, your stuff is still with her for a while, until you can get your situation squared away. I came back and found mine all sold. It wasn't like I had kept photos and a list of items, so it was "community property" and she was well within her rights.
- WHEN you leave, as a man you're options are rather more limited. You're forced to rely on yourself. Yes, there are shelters, but there tend to be far fewer of those for men than for women nationwide.
- The social stigma comes from both men and women. It's well and good for women to point and blame men for not reporting, citing it as their own fault, but these same women simply do not stop to consider how they, themselves, VIEW such men as those "weak" enough to have to report such a thing. You're "weak" if you can't stand up to her, an abuser if you do.
Women have commented in other threads regarding this topic that men just need to get over themselves, as in "swallow whatever it is you're calling pride". I find that remarkably uncompassionate and short-sighted for such "enlightened" individuals who would resent the gender role-reversal with regard to remarks like man up, suck it up, get over yourself.
Couldn't have said it better, especially the last two paragraphs.
Oh yeah !
I'd managed before I left to sneak out some photos, and personal items to my parents, without telling them why.
I also had a shed in the garden which she didn't go into, so I'd hidden some stuff in there so I could collect it without her knowing.
When i finally left "her" house, (legally, it was ours, but it was always made plain it was "hers") I had the clothes I could stand up in, and what stuff I could fit into the car, I had to time it so I could leave when she was out for an hour.
An hour isn't much time to pack !
Anything I'd left, she refused to give me, and basically held it to ransom. again, I was threatened with restraining orders if I tried to contact her to collect it.
Three days after I left, I had a phone call from the neighbour that she had built a big bonfire in the garden with all the stuff I'd left, and her and her new boyfriend were drinking, laughing, and burning it all.
Much of it was only material, but there was a lot of sentimental stuff in there !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch
- If kids aren't an issue but you leave, your stuff is still with her for a while, until you can get your situation squared away. I came back and found mine all sold. It wasn't like I had kept photos and a list of items, so it was "community property" and she was well within her rights.
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