Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-16-2010, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,854,495 times
Reputation: 11485

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
You know something, due to mass marketing promoting useless crap, western culture is WAY to caught up in 'love', and desire to feel this enigmatic emotion.

Americans forget that relationships are also business transactions. This business transaction entails sharing limited resources, paying bills, talking care of sick family, going to work, being a provider, being a protector, being a shoulder to cry on, and most importantly, lending an ear so your mate can debrief themselves. This does not require 'love' but it does require compassion, maturity, and a willingness to work together as a team to stay alive in this world.

The point of my rant is that I feel it's much more of a success to stay with your consort for 20 years, and raise the little ones to be productive citizens even if you could not proclaim that you 'love' your consort then to be able to procalim that all your past relationships you were 'madly in love' but yet you have nothing to show forth except a string of failed relationships and fatherless/motherless children.

Oh, geez, you're trying to take all the "romance" out of it! However, on nearly every point I agree with you. If two people are truly compatible the love they feel for one another will only get deeper as time goes by. If they aren't, no amount of "love" will help. The biggest myth I ever heard was "love conquers all". It doesn't.

Your second paragraph is a good synopsis of what a partnership should be and, yes, I consider marriage a partnership. Unfortunately not everyone has that type of realtionship. As to the third...I can't imagine staying with someone my whole life if there was no love at all or none ever developed. And I'm not even a "romantic" type person!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-16-2010, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Verde Valley AZ
8,775 posts, read 11,854,495 times
Reputation: 11485
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepinksquid View Post
I don't think the OP was referring to arranged marriages specifically around Muslim couples.

I have a friend, for example, that's in a kinda-sorta arranged marriage and she's Greek. There's no religious context to the decision whatsoever, other than they're both Greek Orthodox. The reasoning in the marriage is that they both are from the same island in Greece and have matching dowrys or something like that and their families know each other, etc etc.

So, yes, in Islam arranged marriage is often seen as having divine intervention, but in other cultures/religions, it's more of a social and financial agreement.
Years ago I very briefly dated a guy from Greece. He was 'engaged' to a girl back in Greece but was here for college. I didn't know that at the beginning though. After he told me we stayed friends and he would still 'escort' me to the clubs and watch out for me. I threw him a going away party when he left to go back to Greece.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2010, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,831 posts, read 87,941,729 times
Reputation: 22814
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
Years ago I very briefly dated a guy from Greece. He was 'engaged' to a girl back in Greece but was here for college. I didn't know that at the beginning though. After he told me we stayed friends and he would still 'escort' me to the clubs and watch out for me. I threw him a going away party when he left to go back to Greece.
He doesn't sound like a Greek... Or he's a Greek with some wrong chromosomes...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Wherever I want to be... ;)
2,536 posts, read 9,904,260 times
Reputation: 1995
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
Years ago I very briefly dated a guy from Greece. He was 'engaged' to a girl back in Greece but was here for college. I didn't know that at the beginning though. After he told me we stayed friends and he would still 'escort' me to the clubs and watch out for me. I threw him a going away party when he left to go back to Greece.
Yeah, the whole thing is soooo weird (to me). She is American, yet her parents are from Greece, and I think it's the same thing for her husband. She's had issues having a boyfriend in the past, and never was in a relationship for very long...then BAM! she's engaged to this guy pretty much out of nowhere. It hasn't been explicitly said that it's arranged, but it's been sort of implied that her family helped her find this guy as I think they were getting concerned she was getting to "old" to be married--she's all of 26 I think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2010, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
740 posts, read 1,229,798 times
Reputation: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepinksquid View Post
Yeah, the whole thing is soooo weird (to me). She is American, yet her parents are from Greece, and I think it's the same thing for her husband. She's had issues having a boyfriend in the past, and never was in a relationship for very long...then BAM! she's engaged to this guy pretty much out of nowhere. It hasn't been explicitly said that it's arranged, but it's been sort of implied that her family helped her find this guy as I think they were getting concerned she was getting to "old" to be married--she's all of 26 I think.
My friends in the Balkans do the same thing. If people don't find their matches by 25 or so, the family steps in. In Serbia at least, the bride's family also gets a rather large chunk of money at the time of the marriage, so there is a huge financial incentive to marry off girls. And if you (in the universal sense of the word) thought women were bad gold-diggers, you have not seen anything until you have met a Serbian family with an unmarried girl
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2010, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,012 posts, read 29,617,935 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by typhoidmary View Post
My friends in the Balkans do the same thing. If people don't find their matches by 25 or so, the family steps in. In Serbia at least, the bride's family also gets a rather large chunk of money at the time of the marriage, so there is a huge financial incentive to marry off girls. And if you (in the universal sense of the word) thought women were bad gold-diggers, you have not seen anything until you have met a Serbian family with an unmarried girl
It's pretty much the norm in cultures rooted in Indo-Persian history - all of Persia, Asia Minor, Bactria and Indus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2010, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
740 posts, read 1,229,798 times
Reputation: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
It's pretty much the norm in cultures rooted in Indo-Persian history - all of Persia, Asia Minor, Bactria and Indus.
True. Sub-Saharan Africa as well, since there is a "bride price". And families can be merciless when it comes to this topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-05-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Florida
3,359 posts, read 7,306,566 times
Reputation: 1908
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinx View Post
This whole concept bothers me. Arranged marriage is obviously not the pursuit of love, so why not find someone you can at least be compatible with before marrying them? If you're going to marry someone you are not in love with then why not find a true companion?

Bleh.
I think this whole notion of finding someone your 'in love with'...is a selfish notion...and is why so many marriages end in divorce in America...and why so many spouses cheat...

For one, most don't know what love is...Love is a very self serving emotion or feeling...

'You love the lady cause she physically resembles your fantasy woman'...

That's not really love...it's more like falling in love with an 'image'...rather than the persons soul or being...and it teaches a kind of shallow self serving end...

Same with a women...
Most don't know what love is...again, they base it on self serving physical projections of their own needs...

To many people base love on emotions and feelings, and personal physical fulfillment...

One advantage I could see in arranged marriages..(and the best examples, not the worst)...
Is that the emphasis would be on 'commitment'...and that commitment to one another, would eventually blossom into love...the foundation would actually be stronger...cause they would learn to love each other through commitment to one another, rather than self serving lust or fashion trends, or other shallow fleeting reasons...

And what I'm saying reflects in the high divorce rate...

Feelings come and go...and all love is is a feeling...and we usually fall in love with people who bow to our will...
It's a very conditionally driven 'contract' of the heart...

Where as with arranged marriages...instead of looking at how your mate can serve you, it's more about how you can serve your mate...which again, to me, would make for a stronger bond, down the road...

Again...'commitment' regardless of...is a stronger contract than 'Oh, do you still love me' type of contract...

Maybe someone could articulate it better than I can...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 08:39 AM
 
3,486 posts, read 5,668,944 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time and Space View Post
I think this whole notion of finding someone your 'in love with'...is a selfish notion...and is why so many marriages end in divorce in America...and why so many spouses cheat...

For one, most don't know what love is...Love is a very self serving emotion or feeling...

'You love the lady cause she physically resembles your fantasy woman'...

That's not really love...it's more like falling in love with an 'image'...rather than the persons soul or being...and it teaches a kind of shallow self serving end...

Same with a women...
Most don't know what love is...again, they base it on self serving physical projections of their own needs...

To many people base love on emotions and feelings, and personal physical fulfillment...

One advantage I could see in arranged marriages..(and the best examples, not the worst)...
Is that the emphasis would be on 'commitment'...and that commitment to one another, would eventually blossom into love...the foundation would actually be stronger...cause they would learn to love each other through commitment to one another, rather than self serving lust or fashion trends, or other shallow fleeting reasons...

And what I'm saying reflects in the high divorce rate...

Feelings come and go...and all love is is a feeling...and we usually fall in love with people who bow to our will...
It's a very conditionally driven 'contract' of the heart...

Where as with arranged marriages...instead of looking at how your mate can serve you, it's more about how you can serve your mate...which again, to me, would make for a stronger bond, down the road...

Again...'commitment' regardless of...is a stronger contract than 'Oh, do you still love me' type of contract...

Maybe someone could articulate it better than I can...
Oh, I understand what you are saying -- I just think you are wrong. Your claim that love gets in the way of commitment, and that you can't possibly be committed to someone you have strong feelings for is nonsense. I recognize that it stems from the rather popular view that personal contentment and the pursuit of happiness are inherently dangerous and immoral, and the only proper way to live is to eschew all enjoyment in favor of thankless duty -- but it's something that represents a personal philosophy, rather than something provable; and it's a philosophy I choose not to embrace. I only note parenthetically that it is highly hypocritical; because those who adhere to it are more than eager to pursue their own gratification, but wear such a huge chip on their shoulder, they find it inconceivable that anyone else's aspirations and desires are legitimate.

Marriage should be a means to an end, not an end in itself (which is how you seem to view it), a meaningful relationship between people who are committed to each other because they have feelings for each other, not some precious little totem which requires human sacrifice. You scoff at feelings as something that isn't legitimate, yet articulate no basis for your belief that people should renounce their innermost nature and become unfeeling automatons, and in what way this is supposedly better for society. The idea of love may seem sappy to you, but it's a hell of a lot better than the thirst for power, greed, fear, oppression and/or bovine docility, on which arranged marriages are usually founded.

The reasons for the high divorce rate are numerous -- but primarily, they are long life expectancy, relative wealth of our society, and its liberal laws, which allow people who are unhappy in marriage to walk away from it. Arranged marriages are usually practiced in societies that are poor and mired in oppression, including most notably the oppression of women -- who remain in these marriages not because of truly and freely given commitment, but because they simply have no choice. These societies also tend to have a much lower life expectancy.

Which should tell you that the phenomenon of arranged marriages doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's part of an overall societal structure that's foreign to Westerners. You are wrong when you say that spouses in an arranged marriages are committed to each other. They are committed to their parents, their extended family, and their viciously demanding, uncharitable god -- but not to each other. That's not likely to work well for Westerners, with our deeply rooted tradition of individualism. In a society where arranged marriages are common, a couple believes their happiness is utterly subordinate to the interests of the elders. Without that structure, you are left arguing that people should forgo personal happiness "just because" -- because happiness is silly and inappropriate for grown-ups. And that's just not convincing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-06-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,229 posts, read 16,242,306 times
Reputation: 26005
I think much of the cultural method of arranged marriages are strictly for the selfish needs of the parents and nothing more. It used to be practiced in parts of Europe but is still common in the Middle East and China. I think it has a lot less to do with their children's happiness and more as a safety net to be taken care of when they're old. And the risk of having their son or daughter marry someone they don't know takes away from that feeling of security.

It's stupid. Sure, marrying for "love" certainly doesn't guarantee a lifetime of success. But I've always been convinced that the women in these cultures inwardly resent this practice. And maybe the men do, too; however, they are often able to have affairs. As you know, THAT would go over in the western world like a dead horse. Certain religions in the US do that, too, but in this case it is strictly for "control" purposes.

No, I don't see anything good about arranged marriages.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Relationships

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top