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Yep. Could you imagine if that's what pharma did? Half of western civilization would be dead within a year. I was talking with a friend the other night about hope. He was saying "I know you don't like spiritual stuff, or new age thinking, etc, but what about A, B, or C. We all need to hope". I told him I find myself hoping quite a bit at work. If an experiment actually works, given all the variables and interactions between variables, I dance a frigging ***. It doesn't matter what the molecule is supposed to do given its characteristics and that almost identical molecules behave a specific way, it can be a real cr*pshoot.
To get back to the topic of the forum, this is why it drives me mad when people have on experience, positive or negative, and use it as a ruler for how all human interactions work or how 1/2 of the species acts. I mean, it is a data point in a system that is more complex than any model out there. I mean, you can't even predict every time with particles!
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
That is hilarious. I love it and will now post it on Nutz76's page lol.
Right now I think this one can sum up why the financial crisis happened:
A party of economists was climbing in the Alps . After several hours they became hopelessly lost. One of them studied the map for some time, turning it up and down, sighting on distant landmarks, consulting his compass, and finally the sun.
Finally he said, ' OK see that big mountain over there?'
'Yes', answered the others eagerly.
'Well, according to the map, we're standing on top of it.'
To get back to the topic of the forum, this is why it drives me mad when people have on experience, positive or negative, and use it as a ruler for how all human interactions work or how 1/2 of the species acts. I mean, it is a data point in a system that is more complex than any model out there. I mean, you can't even predict every time with particles!
Eh, I guess black and white is just an easier approach for some.
Quote:
Right now I think this one can sum up why the financial crisis happened:
A party of economists was climbing in the Alps . After several hours they became hopelessly lost. One of them studied the map for some time, turning it up and down, sighting on distant landmarks, consulting his compass, and finally the sun.
Finally he said, ' OK see that big mountain over there?'
'Yes', answered the others eagerly.
'Well, according to the map, we're standing on top of it.'
Regarding the economic benefits of marriage... well there aren't any.
The studies that people use to claim that marriage leads to greater wealth and life expectancy fail to hold water because:
1. it does not distinguish between causation and correlation. Are men healither and wealthier because they are married, or married because they are healthier and wealthier?
2. the "single" men in the studies include men who have been divorced for over a year, i.e. have been financially devestated as well as lost their reason for working and living as their home and children are stolen from them. Indeed, many new divorced men find themselves without a support network because the wife chased away his old friends and the new social contacts were mostly her friends. No wonder that one of the groups with the highest rate of suicide is divorced men!
These stats need to re adjusted with fresh data and broken down into married, divorced, and never married to have any type of meaning.
3. Let's say that you could show that married men have a higher income than never married men. So what? A single man has greater control over his expenses and can chose more easily to save money, not spend on non essential items, etc..
By contrast, a married man must pay for his wife and children, including mutliple cars, a larger home, college education, his and her retirements, etc... Certainly it is possible that husband and wife could both be frugal but it's just as possible that one will not be. Even with frugality, there will still be expenses, like schooling and medical care, that a bachelor need not worry about.
4. Dual incomes can help but who will care for the children? Outsource child care is expensive! Toss in higher living expenses because one parent is not shopping for food/finding good deals and much of what one spouse makes is consumed such that it may not pay for them to work. As a result, should the wife not work, the husband must take on an increased burden and either take extra hours and force himself to gain promotions to more stressful position to make up.
As a bachelor, I don't have to worry about any of the above. I have a nice townhouse that is more than enough for me, a beautiful near-luxury sports car that ROCKS, and investments that are swelling despite recent stalls in the market because I can toss in 1/3 of my gross income into them (although I may cut that back to 30% so I can enjoy my money a little more... we'll see). An extremely comfortable retirement at 55 is almost a certainity. Heck, 50 is a possibility.
Really, why would I give up all of this to be a wage slave, selling my soul and life energy as I dash to an early grave to support a wife who could cheat on my, breaking her vows, and STILL be rewarded by the courts with my assets, children, and future income?
Sorry ladies, but marriage isn't what it was and even then it wasn't that great. Still, I thank the modern ladies for changing the system so that I will never be a wageslave as the men of old.
Really, why would I give up all of this to be a wage slave, selling my soul and life energy as I dash to an early grave to support a wife who could cheat on my, breaking her vows, and STILL be rewarded by the courts with my assets, children, and future income?
Sorry ladies, but marriage isn't what it was and even then it wasn't that great. Still, I thank the modern ladies for changing the system so that I will never be a wageslave as the men of old.
Ahhh... FREEDOM!!!
I must have missed the marriage proposal posts for Ameiko in this thread. Don't worry, you just turn them down lol.
I must have missed the marriage proposal posts for Ameiko in this thread. Don't worry, you just turn them down lol.
Clearly someone who didn't bother to read the articles, short or long form, and posted a canned response. If he had, he would have seen that the report is just a cross-sectional study, repeated with each census, and is neither for nor against marriage. I feel like a grad student again, grading essays when people did not read the assignment
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn I must have missed the marriage proposal posts for Ameiko in this thread. Don't worry, you just turn them down lol.
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Originally Posted by typhoidmary
Clearly someone who didn't bother to read the articles, short or long form, and posted a canned response. If he had, he would have seen that the report is just a cross-sectional study, repeated with each census, and is neither for nor against marriage. I feel like a grad student again, grading essays when people did not read the assignment
*pats both of you on the head*
I perused the articles and posts. I also read the underlying subtext where men are being sold a bill of goods about how marriage is so wonderful of them. It's not. Whatever economic advantage may be gained by an educated and working spouse are often negated by other factors that I and NotARedneck noted. If she is educated but not working, there is no gain. If she is educated and never paid off her loan such that the husband must pay it, there is a loss. If she is working but now you pay someone else to raise you kids, not to mention take the kids to therapy later because they felt mommy and daddy didn't love you, there may be a gain or loss.
You have to understand where these stats come from, what they mean, and who is pushing an agenda.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn I must have missed the marriage proposal posts for Ameiko in this thread. Don't worry, you just turn them down lol.
You have to understand where these stats come from, what they mean, and who is pushing an agenda.
The US Census, Pew, and the Economist have the same agenda?
And I'm neither pro nor against marriage. If folks want to, super. If they don't, that is super too.
All I know is that I was looking at several dating profiles early this morning, that actually asked things like how often should a woman pay on a date--and the responses were varied. I don't believe any respondent said anything less than 10% of the time. However, a later question that asked how LIVING expenses should be divided if the two moved in together, I don't believe any of the ones I saw said anything other than 50% from each.
This is patently ridiculous. It should be dependent on how much actually earns in the relationship, assuming both work. If she earns nothing, of course she pays nothing. But if he makes $2,000 a month, and she makes $1000 a month, and monthly expenses (joint expenses) are $1500, it is nowhere near fair for each to pay $750 a month, leaving her with much less disposable income than him. Instead, she should pay $500 and he should pay $1000. Then each contributes half their actual income, the same percentage of income, to the total expenses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn I must have missed the marriage proposal posts for Ameiko in this thread. Don't worry, you just turn them down lol.
*pats both of you on the head*
Please keep your sticky fingers out of my virtual hair. Thanks!
Quote:
I perused the articles and posts. I also read the underlying subtext where men are being sold a bill of goods about how marriage is so wonderful of them. It's not. Whatever economic advantage may be gained by an educated and working spouse are often negated by other factors that I and NotARedneck noted. If she is educated but not working, there is no gain. If she is educated and never paid off her loan such that the husband must pay it, there is a loss. If she is working but now you pay someone else to raise you kids, not to mention take the kids to therapy later because they felt mommy and daddy didn't love you, there may be a gain or loss.
You have to understand where these stats come from, what they mean, and who is pushing an agenda.
If, if, if, if, and if. How about a real situation - educated wife is a planner and wields her education and career to provide an income that can sustain a family in comfort, puts husband through college, and both decide to work alternative schedules to avoid child care. One income is entirely dedicated to savings. The only skill set required- walk and chew gum simultaneously (a challenge for some, not all).
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