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Old 04-23-2010, 01:47 PM
 
718 posts, read 1,817,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yayoi View Post
My point is that the relationship between the adults needs to be nurtured first and foremost. Otherwise what's the point in getting in a serious relationship? I see far too many people focus their whole lives on the child(ren) while their relationships with their partners fall apart.
I have tried to explain this exact point to a girlfriend who is finding that her husband is/ was entertaining thoughts of leaving her and the kids for a woman who is not interested in having kids and has none. I cannot seem to make her understand that their relationship must come first, I feel that is his draw to this woman -- she puts him first. My friend insists his lack of maturity won't allow him to understand that the kids come first no matter what, it's "common sense." What do they say --common sense is not common? I disagree with her wholeheartedly; she can't dismiss his feelings towards her and their relationship as a married couple as lacking common sense. She and I are at an impasse on the topic.

I think that's why she -- and so many of her friends and mine -- will end up a 'single mom.'
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co. TN
29,594 posts, read 26,096,438 times
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Quote:
I have tried to explain this exact point to a girlfriend who is finding that her husband is/ was entertaining thoughts of leaving her and the kids for a woman who is not interested in having kids and has none. I cannot seem to make her understand that their relationship must come first, I feel that is his draw to this woman -- she puts him first. My friend insists his lack of maturity won't allow him to understand that the kids come first no matter what, it's "common sense." What do they say --common sense is not common? I disagree with her wholeheartedly; she can't dismiss his feelings towards her and their relationship as a married couple as lacking common sense. She and I are at an impasse on the topic.
Just for the sake of argument, given the idea or reoccurring theme that its natural for men to want there own DNA passed on and they cant bond with offspring that is not his biologically (Not picking on Bobman just using part of his post as an example)

Quote:
instincts tell us it's a threat to our genes. we will not have the same attachment.
Wouldnt It hold true then, that it is instinct for women to put their children first. Dosent "nature dictates" cause women to be nurturing and by default to that which came from her loins.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:03 PM
 
805 posts, read 1,435,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DogNight View Post
I have tried to explain this exact point to a girlfriend who is finding that her husband is/ was entertaining thoughts of leaving her and the kids for a woman who is not interested in having kids and has none. I cannot seem to make her understand that their relationship must come first, I feel that is his draw to this woman -- she puts him first. My friend insists his lack of maturity won't allow him to understand that the kids come first no matter what, it's "common sense." What do they say --common sense is not common? I disagree with her wholeheartedly; she can't dismiss his feelings towards her and their relationship as a married couple as lacking common sense. She and I are at an impasse on the topic.

I think that's why she -- and so many of her friends and mine -- will end up a 'single mom.'



I feel bad for your friend that she's losing her husband over this.

Some women also want children and go ahead and have them even if the husband is not supportive. That might also contribute to such scenarios.

I'd imagine a woman is better off single raising a child than having a husband who doesn't want to be a part of it.

Children need love, attention, proper care, guidance, and boundaries. But they should not rule the roost. Allowing them to usurp the primary relationship between man and woman is shooting oneself in the foot. The spouse is the one she'll spend her old age with and depend on...the children will be out and gone, occasionally coming home for holiday visits and emergencies.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Amarillo, Tx
622 posts, read 1,217,992 times
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Well I think one of the biggest services you can do for your children is to show them what a successful marriage is. And in doing so you need to show them that your marriage is a top priority. See people are confusing extremes. No one is saying that its ok to make your children do without for the sake of your boyfriend/ girlfriend. Or that its ok to ignore them to go party. Those are extremes and should fall under common sense.

However I see a theme with single parents. They are so guilt ridden because of the divorce that they teach the kids that their every little want in the world is their number one priority. No wonder kids are the ungrateful, entitiled little brats they are. You can be a great parent without bending to their every want and whim.

My SO and I had a problem with this. She feels so guilty that she was turning those kids into such brats that no one could stand to be around them. She couldnt tell them no. Im sorry but when we are having to leave places on dates to drive across town and take her son a red t-shirt because he didnt want to wear the black one thats ridiculous.

In my opinion they need to see that marriage is an united front and a priority.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:18 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 5,403,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DogNight View Post
I have tried to explain this exact point to a girlfriend who is finding that her husband is/ was entertaining thoughts of leaving her and the kids for a woman who is not interested in having kids and has none. I cannot seem to make her understand that their relationship must come first, I feel that is his draw to this woman -- she puts him first. My friend insists his lack of maturity won't allow him to understand that the kids come first no matter what, it's "common sense." What do they say --common sense is not common? I disagree with her wholeheartedly; she can't dismiss his feelings towards her and their relationship as a married couple as lacking common sense. She and I are at an impasse on the topic.
Of course the relationship should come first. But what exactly does that mean? Any way you structure it, children require a tremendous amount of attention and impose constraints on everything from the timing of vacations to where you choose to live. Therefore, no matter how much a wife with children may be devoted to her husband she'll never be as "convenient" as a woman who has none. Additionally, it takes two parents to produce children -- and therefore, I don't see how the kids in this situation are the woman's problem. If what he wants is a life free from child care, then it's just not something his wife can provide for him. Seems, he just wants someone else to raise his children.

Also, about the relationship coming first. That's true of a marital relationship. It shouldn't be true of dating. A boyfriend you just started seeing two months ago should NEVER come before children, and for people to argue otherwise is just insane. This may be one of the disadvantages of dating a single parent, but the fact remains that parenting is more important than dating.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:36 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,664,150 times
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Fair enough: a woman with kids will put the kids first, and well they should. However, as a woman, you need to accept the consequence of that decision (meaning, don't complain that you can't find/keep a good man).

Men don't want to be the center of attention, but they also don't want to be at the bottom of the barrel. Men want to feel like their presence, their FULL presence, is needed. Not just a warm sex toy, not as a funnel for your baby daddy drama, but all around needed. Men need to know and feel that yes, you know how to shop for a computer, but you'd rather have him do it for you because he knows better. Men need to know that when you are ready to go on vacation that you're going to let him make the arrangements because it's "his role". As arcane as that might sound, it's the easiest way to a solid situation; a fine balance between the whole "man of the house" dynamic and equality.

The key is that in a relationship, the best way to roll it through is to figure out how to make both your kids AND your boyfriend #1. That's what eludes the majority of single mothers - they don't know how to do that, which ironically is why they're single in the first place. And yes, it is possible to do, but it takes effort and the sacrifice of a bit of your pride. If you can't bring someone into your life and feel comfortable letting them be at the forefront of your mind/heart along with everyone else that's there, you have no business dating. Period.

True story:

I once met a girl on a blind, in San Bernardino. On the phone she seemed sweet and intelligent, the perfect match. She told me she had a daughter. I didn't like it but I accepted it because she seemed to have a great personality. Arranged to meet her, she was pregnant AND had a child. Strike #1 - lying.

Mind you this girl was NOT attractive, not at all. Being bony yet pregnant is just not a turn-on. By looking at her it was obvious that some guy had just used her for sex and then threw her away, which she later told me is exactly what happened. She told me she liked pretty boys and that I wasn't her type even though it was a pretty boy that did her dirty. Strike #2 - shallow behavior (when she really didn't have anything to offer anyone).

I met her daughter and she was the sweetest child I'd ever met. We went to Chuck E Cheese as a group, the daughter always wanted to play the games with me and hold my hand, didn't want to deal with her mom at all. Went to the park, she slipped on one of the water games and got hurt, came running up to me crying, wanting me to pick her up (not her mom). And normally I would not pick up a wet child, but in her case I didn't care. I actually liked the girl's daughter more than I liked the girl, so when she and I last talked on the phone, the girl was in the background begging to talk to me but the girl wouldn't let her. It really did break my heart. Strike #3 - heartless behavior.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:17 PM
 
718 posts, read 1,817,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Of course the relationship should come first. But what exactly does that mean? Any way you structure it, children require a tremendous amount of attention and impose constraints on everything from the timing of vacations to where you choose to live. Therefore, no matter how much a wife with children may be devoted to her husband she'll never be as "convenient" as a woman who has none. Additionally, it takes two parents to produce children -- and therefore, I don't see how the kids in this situation are the woman's problem. If what he wants is a life free from child care, then it's just not something his wife can provide for him. Seems, he just wants someone else to raise his children.

Also, about the relationship coming first. That's true of a marital relationship.
He met her as single dad and she was a woman with no kids; he had a 10 year old. I think he enjoyed her company because she paid him full attention.

I think she can structure her life differently. Don't launch on the dude when he comes through the door about how she took the kids to Sears Portrait Studio for the 38th time this month for another set of 13,000 pictures. Don't go to Disney every other weekend and do all the family stuff. Don't talk about ballet classes, swimming classes, and pottery classes all day long.

I have reminded her gently and now not so gently that she was a person before her kids, a person he fell in love with and shared interests with him. They need adult time. He needs to come first - be asked about his job, his day, whatever. She instead has totally immersed him in what I am calling daddy therapy: he coaches the kids sports teams, etc. He is now redirected into participating in their lives as much as she does, which is nice if it weren't 140%. She missed my point. My point was to create 'couple' time, not drown him in daddy time.

2Mares...I see what you're saying and I'm not saying that any of this is fair by any stretch...but it is what it is.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 5,403,243 times
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3Dog -- does he have any interest in his children, though? From you posts, it sounds like he exists completely apart from them and regards them as an imposition. They are his children, correct? You mention the wife annoying him by mentioning the children and what she did with them too much. Does he ever do anything for, or with, the children? I mean, it's not like she's a single mother, and he a childless guy who has to put up with some snot-nosed kids, right?
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:24 PM
 
718 posts, read 1,817,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqua0 View Post

I'd imagine a woman is better off single raising a child than having a husband who doesn't want to be a part of it.

Children need love, attention, proper care, guidance, and boundaries. But they should not rule the roost. Allowing them to usurp the primary relationship between man and woman is shooting oneself in the foot. The spouse is the one she'll spend her old age with and depend on...the children will be out and gone, occasionally coming home for holiday visits and emergencies.
As to the bolded section - I have two friends who have chosen this road. They devoted their lives to their children, and I can tell you between these two women - their three kids are awful because of it. However they are all off to college soon and these two women are just now deciding to date again. They determined early on that they were confident they were not going to give any man the full attention he may require so they just hung it up for lack of a better metaphor - until the kids went to college. They are now coming back to the dating game. At least they made a conscious choice -- thought of themselves, their kids and the men they may have involved themselves with. I respect and admire that foresight.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:28 PM
 
718 posts, read 1,817,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
3Dog -- does he have any interest in his children, though? From you posts, it sounds like he exists completely apart from them and regards them as an imposition. They are his children, correct? You mention the wife annoying him by mentioning the children and what she did with them too much. Does he ever do anything for, or with, the children? I mean, it's not like she's a single mother, and he a childless guy who has to put up with some snot-nosed kids, right?
Yes he does. He also has a healthy interest in his wife!! He does do things with them, I know he does from what she tells me. It's just that he has outside interests, which I respect. She had them too. She has made the choice to not just focus but fixate on their kids. He does not share the fixation.

I think she needs to cultivate more fun, *private* adult time, not more shared parenting time. That will never be equal, seeing as he works and she does not.
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