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Braunwyn, No offense but I have to really question your ability to provide any sort of factual answer on this. You aren't a man so you really can't understand what a manly instinct is like so being emasculated (made to be unmanly) is completely foreign to you.
Well, I'll take chowhound's word for it. My husband's, too. Neither match up with what you have in mind.
Do you suppose age has something to do with it? Not because of maturity but because of income. Most people who get married are in their 20s or 30s. Their income isn't as much as people in their 40s. People in their 40s income doesn't matter as much because both of you probably make enough money to provide for a family. It's easy to say "you are chauvinistic" when both of you make so much money the only difference between the two incomes is who can buy the best toys. I would hazard a guess that those who are arguing against me are in their late 30s or higher and have forgotten how difficult it can be to make ends meet with one income. Oh you remember those days. But you don't REMEMBER. You don't put your mind in the same state it was back then. Try to think back when you were among the primary marrying age and really ask yourself if you had gone on a first date and the guy said he wanted to be a homemaker, would there be a second date?
If you say yes, you are deceiving yourself. You and I both know that men are expected to work while women are given the option to work.
I got engaged at 20. Married at 22. I'm now 24. We have said since day 1 that if we have a child, my husband would stay home with it if we could afford to have either of us stay home. (It's doubtful that we could make it on one income right now). I work because I thrive in that kind of environment. He works because we have bills to pay. If I made enough to allow him to stay home, he'd do it in a heartbeat. If we had children who needed caring for at home, I'd be 100% okay with him being the one doing it instead of me.
Sooooo...yup, I married him. Please stop making generalizations.
Are you a woman? Do you speak for all women? I've never offended any woman who was able to actually communicate with me about any of this. They think me enlightened. We on this forum aren't communicating. This is a very poor method to converse, especially among adversaries.
And what about what I am saying is so offensive? I say that women are attracted to take charge men. That women want to be treated special. That they want the option to take off from work. How is that offensive?
The sentences that people have been offended by, they took them out of context.
75k a yr in So Cal will not provide for a family all that easily. You aren't owning a home, and probably driving older cars, and not living in the best of areas.
Note I said family, not a single person or a couple with no children.
Pretty sad, but you need six figures here in order to do it properly.
$75k in NoVa won't cut it either. Heck, we make well over 6 figures with our combined incomes, and still drive 10 year old cars and rent, because we can't afford to buy.
Our 401ks and retirement savings are fed diligently though. I wonder sometimes if the people I know who seem to have extra money on similar incomes are forgetting that piece.
I am terrified of having children, for fear of not being able to afford to send them to college.
My first marriage ended because of just this type of feeling on my husband's part. When we were first together in our early 20s, we knew that my career path was white collar and his was blue. At the time he'd pay lip service to liking my higher salary and earning potential, saying it made me good marriage material. "Ooh, look at me, mom, I got me a career gal!"
Six years later we did get married, and suddenly my income was a threat to him--turns out what I'd always understood as good-natured ribbing masked a deep resentment and insecurity. I had no intention of giving up my career to be a housewife (which is something completely different than "homemaker") and he simply couldn't handle it.
I've now been married 15 years to another blue-collar man who is not at all threatened by my career. His career is one he loves--he's a cook--but it's not high-paying. Together we make our home and care for our family, and neither of us is the "housewife."
Men who are "emasculated" by a woman's higher income have more problems than just insecurity over money. And they DON'T make good husbands or fathers, since they'll just pass along those problems to their sons.
And what about what I am saying is so offensive? I say that women are attracted to take charge men. That women want to be treated special. That they want the option to take off from work. How is that offensive?
The sentences that people have been offended by, they took them out of context.
The offense is the generalization. Fewer and fewer women every generation can be described in these terms as society evolves. I imagine it is true that biology informs women's choices in their prime child-bearing years, and maternal instinct has an influence on couple's decisions about who (if anyone) stays home with the children, but society's influence on these roles is diminishing.
Assuming that all women want an option to put their careers on hold to stay home from work with their children is not offensive, just nonsensical.
i never got the chance to find out she spent it so fast. what
intimated me was after she spent hers she spent all mine and then some.
everything she wants is everything she sees, wham sing it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcUd1pB8UPQ
$75k in NoVa won't cut it either. Heck, we make well over 6 figures with our combined incomes, and still drive 10 year old cars and rent, because we can't afford to buy.
Our 401ks and retirement savings are fed diligently though. I wonder sometimes if the people I know who seem to have extra money on similar incomes are forgetting that piece.
Agreed and I suspect smartalx might be overlooking this important piece of the puzzle. Little, ime, brings this kind of planning to the forefront than marriage. That's the difference between reality and dreams. He's dreaming right now, but his views may change once he's in it.
Sanderling, excellent posts all around. I'd rep you again if I could.
Six years later we did get married, and suddenly my income was a threat to him--turns out what I'd always understood as good-natured ribbing masked a deep resentment and insecurity. I had no intention of giving up my career to be a housewife (which is something completely different than "homemaker") and he simply couldn't handle it.
Sounds selfish of you. What did he provide for the family? How did you provide for the family? Obviously both of you provided some income and some time and affection but did he feel like he wasn't contributing enough? Men need to feel that they have a purpose. A woman who stands in the way of a man's ability to contribute, whether by accident or on purpose, causes him to feel inadequate. It's not necessarily the woman's fault, but can still stand in the way. Does that make him less than a man? Yes. And now you understand emasculation. Is it his fault that he feels emasculated? No. It's not his fault. Don't blame him when you have the control.
Quote:
Men who are "emasculated" by a woman's higher income have more problems than just insecurity over money. And they DON'T make good husbands or fathers, since they'll just pass along those problems to their sons.
It depends on why they are emasculated by their wife's income. Your current man feels that he is contributing. It doesn't matter what he earns as long as he contributes. Your old man (I am guessing) felt that he couldn't contribute like his wife so he felt inadequate.
Maybe he should "get over it" right? Well, if that's your feeling then you aren't paying attention to Men's desires. We have feelings too and they are just as valid and appropriate and important as yours. One of those feelings... no God given RIGHTS! is for the man to have a purpose. If he feels that he has no purpose, then he doesn't feel like a man and he feels that he has no right to be on this Earth.
Agreed and I suspect smartalx might be overlooking this important piece of the puzzle. Little, ime, brings this kind of planning to the forefront than marriage. That's the difference between reality and dreams. He's dreaming right now, but his views may change once he's in it.
Oh I'm in it.
You all are getting hung up on the details. The point of the $75k dollar figure was to say that anyone making the mean average in your geographic area makes enough for a family to survive. Maybe for you the dollar figure would be $125k or $150k. You are more likely to make that later on in life and if that is you then this entire topic is likely to elicit an entirely different perspective for you than it is for someone earlier in life.
Also, it was a question. Remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalx
Do you suppose age has something to do with it? Not because of maturity but because of income. Most people who get married are in their 20s or 30s. Their income isn't as much as people in their 40s. People in their 40s income doesn't matter as much because both of you probably make enough money to provide for a family.
So rather than shoot the scarecrow, why don't you answer the question by simply saying "no. Neither age nor income has anything to do with it?"
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