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Old 06-14-2010, 02:47 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
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The totality of existence and its implications.


I looked up with Google the term which I have adopted to denote the whole world of being as distinct and opposed to non-being, namely, the totality of existence.

And this is what I turned up:
"totality of existence"


Advanced searchAbout 74,000 results (0.18 seconds)
Search ResultsThe Simplicity of ExistenceWhen I use the word "universe" I really mean the totality of existence. This includes beyond the observable universe in distance and in other limitations of ...
The Simplicity of Existence - Cached - Similar
Spaces of Hope: Dietzgen, God and the Totality of Existence25 Jun 2007 ... When you think about it, the Totality of Existence or the Universe does have the classic attributions of God – it is infinite, it is greater ...
spacesofhope.blogspot.com/.../dietzgen-god-and-totality-of-existence.html - Cached - Similar
Grand UniVerse of Primary Consciousness HandBook to the Void27 Apr 2007 ... Perceived from within by neuroceptors such as we, it appears as a normal totality of existence, as the Universe. ...
primordality.com/ - Cached - Similar
GOD THE TOTALITY OF EXISTENCETHE TOTALITY OF EXISTENCE: How to know this. To experience It. To feel the Eternal Love of God. Use Energy Enhancement Enlightenment and You will Know!
energyenhancement.org/.../god%20the%20totality%20of%20existence.htm

[etc.]

The term should include anything at all even just in your mind which has any existence except absolute nothing.

That should take care of literally everything, even a square-circle which you can think about even though it is supposed to be impossible to exist.




Where do we go from here?

What about to the exchange of ideas and views on God or no God?

And here is my concept of God:
Necessary being maker of everything with a beginning.



Ryrge

 
Old 06-14-2010, 03:12 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
Reputation: 33
Default Somebody an atheist also has the same idea and term, totality of existence.

Somebody an atheist also has the same idea and term, totality of existence.

And his webpage mentioning the totality of existence is the very first hit found by Google; here is what he says about the totality of existence and he talks about god (I guess for being an atheist he prefers to not capitalize the first letter G in the word God).

[quote]
The Simplicity of Existence

[...]Snippet:


In order to explain "creation" we must accept at least something as given. If a god or an "all creator" placed everything into the universe then we are accepting this god as a being already given. This still does not answer our question of how everything else came to be. Surely, such a god could not have obtained the material within the universe from nowhere.






See? in the thinking of this atheist, he could not proceed to talk about the I presume non-existence of God even just in concept without first bringing in the totality of existence.

I must credit him for being most rational and logical.




Ryrge

Last edited by june 7th; 08-06-2011 at 04:48 AM.. Reason: Re-formatted for copyright
 
Old 06-15-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,033,796 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
And here is my concept of God:
Necessary being maker of everything with a beginning.
What about those things that have no beginning? Like the universe?
 
Old 06-15-2010, 04:03 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
Reputation: 33
Default This universe has a beginning, and also I would presume all other universes if any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
And here is my concept of God:
Necessary being maker of everything with a beginning.
What about those things that have no beginning? Like the universe?
This universe has a beginning, and also I would presume all other universes if any.


I believe we have met before, HD, on the matter of chance in the theory of evolution, unless I am mistaken.


My submission is that our universe where we are situated has a beginning in the Big Bang.

Now as regards the multiverse or any other universes that science writers with an atheist worldview would like to postulate, I have not read them saying that those universes have no beginning.

What about you, HD, are you submitting that our universe has no beginning?


I hope that we can have a constructive and productive exchange of ideas and views, notwithstanding that we have different and even opposing worldviews.





Ryrge
 
Old 06-15-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,903 posts, read 6,001,569 times
Reputation: 3533
The Big Bang only says that all matter was in a hot condensed state and 14 billion years ago expanded. What happened before is unknown. That doesn't give merit to the god belief.
 
Old 06-15-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,033,796 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
This universe has a beginning, and also I would presume all other universes if any.
Nonsense.

If it is true that ex nihilo, nihil fit (nothing comes from nothing) then it is impossible for the universe to have a beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
My submission is that our universe where we are situated has a beginning in the Big Bang.
Ahhhh. And there we find your first misconception.

Since nothing can come from nothing, the Big bang cannot be a beginning. It must itself have come from something. Since by the definition of universe whatever it came from must be contained within that universe, the Big Bang can only be the point at which our part of the universe became as it is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
Now as regards the multiverse or any other universes that science writers with an atheist worldview would like to postulate, I have not read them saying that those universes have no beginning.
That would only be because you are equivocating over the word "universe." That's not entirely your fault. We use the word two different ways purely as an accident of history, just as we call the wrong things "atoms" purely because we didn't know better at the time.

If we use universe in its original meaning (as I myself prefer, but I understand if you make other choices) then all the multiverses are just "instances" within the single universe that contains them all by definition.

The instances may have points at which they are spawned from parent multiverses, but the universe preexists them and persists through them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
What about you, HD, are you submitting that our universe has no beginning?
Absolutely. After all, it appears we both concede that something must be eternal and uncreated (i.e. "beginingless"). The difference between us is what we think that eternal uncreated thing actually is.

I assert that it is the universe itself. I make that assertion because it is the only option that can be reasoned to from the actual evidence. No other conclusion can be reached without contradicting the premises of the argument that proceeds from ex nihil, nihil fit, or "all effects must have a cause."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
I hope that we can have a constructive and productive exchange of ideas and views, notwithstanding that we have different and even opposing worldviews.
I look forward to it.
 
Old 06-15-2010, 04:39 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
Reputation: 33
Default Darwin Bedford defines god but not adequately as God is known by theists like Ryrge.

Back to Darwin Bedford's Home Page:
Darwin Bedford, Atheist Messiah, Destroyer of Faith, and Spiritual Reality Therapist Let's debate, and build!
darwin@atheists.net
I will email him to sign up here and join me in the exchange of ideas and views on God or no God.

There, I have sent him my email inviting him to come over, sign up, and exchange messages here with me.

Moderator cut: Advertising

//www.city-data.com/forum/relig...l#post14614076



Ryrge
[/quote]


Bedford takes the care to define God but inadequately.

He tells us that God is all creator, but he should have used my concept of God or the one I have adopted for God, Which is the most crucially essential concept of God among theists like Christians, Muslims, and Jews, namely:
Necessary being maker of everything with a beginning.

This is what Bedford tells what he knows to be God (I will from this point on capitalize the letter g in God, when I write the name God).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedford
In order to explain "creation" we must accept at least something as given. If a god or an "all creator" placed everything into the universe then we are accepting this god as a being already given. This still does not answer our question of how everything else came to be. Surely, such a god could not have obtained the material within the universe from nowhere. The idea of a "creator being" leaves us with more questions to answer than we started with. For example: Where did this god come from? What is he, her, or it made of? Did he have a beginning? Why does he exist. These are the same questions we are asking about the universe itself. All we have done is transfer our questions regarding the universe to questions regarding a creator-god. Since we are not answering the questions we started out to with the concept of a god, we may as well include the god as just another entity to be explained along with all the rest of the universe.
As I said, Darwin Bedford defines god but not adequately as God is known by theists like Ryrge.

I know he will say that he is into all gods, but I will tell him to just keep to the God of theists like Christians, Muslims, and Jews, so that the discussion need not go into all kinds of gods and goddesses, in order that this thread can be neat, orderly, and focused on the God that counts today, and should count today with atheists as the one they should really attend to in their disbelief.





Ryrge

Last edited by june 7th; 08-06-2011 at 04:50 AM..
 
Old 06-15-2010, 04:47 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
Reputation: 33
Default Of course you don't know but you mean you don't want to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
The Big Bang only says that all matter was in a hot condensed state and 14 billion years ago expanded. What happened before is unknown. That doesn't give merit to the god belief.
Of course you don't know but you mean you don't want to know.

What happened before in the order of causality is unknown, that is an impersonal passive.

Suppose you speculate on what is unknown to whom?


A thing can be unknown to someone who does not want to know it, or he really does not know it because he is not in the habit of thinking.


What is the case with you? not knowing because you don't want to know, or not knowing because you have no habit of thinking?




Ryrge
 
Old 06-15-2010, 04:55 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
Reputation: 33
Default The universe has no beginning, you mean it is a necessary being? in itself or in another?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post

[...]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
What about you, HD, are you submitting that our universe has no beginning?
Absolutely. After all, it appears we both concede that something must be eternal and uncreated (i.e. "beginingless"). The difference between us is what we think that eternal uncreated thing actually is.

I assert that it is the universe itself. I make that assertion because it is the only option that can be reasoned to from the actual evidence. No other conclusion can be reached without contradicting the premises of the argument that proceeds from ex nihil, nihil fit, or "all effects must have a cause."

[...]

The universe has no beginning in itself or in another?
 
Old 06-15-2010, 05:12 PM
 
608 posts, read 603,944 times
Reputation: 33
Default I think we are getting somewhere, into more consensus or concurrence in our ideas and views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post

[...]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge
What about you, HD, are you submitting that our universe has no beginning?
Absolutely. After all, it appears we both concede that something must be eternal and uncreated (i.e. "beginingless"). The difference between us is what we think that eternal uncreated thing actually is.

I assert that it is the universe itself. I make that assertion because it is the only option that can be reasoned to from the actual evidence. No other conclusion can be reached without contradicting the premises of the argument that proceeds from ex nihil, nihil fit, or "all effects must have a cause."

[...]
You say:
...it appears we both concede that something must be eternal and uncreated (i.e. "beginingless"). The difference between us is what we think that eternal uncreated thing actually is.
You think that it is the universe where we are situated, and I think that it is God as per my concept of God, namely, the necessary being maker of everything with a beginning.


I submit that we have a consensus here, that something has got to be as you put it the "eternal uncreated thing."


What exactly is the explanation if we want to have an explanation for that something that has got to be the eternal uncreated thing?

Which I call God necessary being maker of everything with a beginning and you call what? the universe, namely, the material or physical universe? or what? what concept aside from its being eternal uncreated?


I think we are getting somewhere, into more consensus or concurrence in our ideas and views.






Ryrge
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