Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
many believers I think even in this thread think if you do not embrace god you will not go to heaven. I can not understand how god would turn his back on someone who led a good life just didn't have religion. you may be in the minority in your thought that he would embrace a non believer. so many criminals in prison say they have found god, I hear many religious person say if you just ask to be forgave you are and you can get into heaven. I would like to think that would not be the case.
I have a difficult time with the fear of god stuff, like the thread that god created the oil spill because the admin did something wrong. or that aids is god's punishment. have a difficult time as well with god allowing all the suffering in the world. I can't imagine an all encompassing compassionate god, capable of such goodness and miracles allowing the suffering or punishing people. free will I don't buy so much, we can still have free will without the horribly parts of human nature to surface.
God will not turn His back on anyone---people turn their backs on Him. One can live a good life but if they say "God, you do not exist" He won't make you accept Him. It's like getting an invitation from your neighbor but you don't want to go to their house, they won't force you to come.
Many criminals say they have found God. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. It is not for us to say. But if they have found God they would be horrible sorry for their crime and try to make restitution if they can and if they cannot then vow not to live like that again. Some go out and do the same thing again---it's obvious they did not find God or try to follow Him. Maybe temporarily but it's a lifetime commitment.
I don't believe God made the oil spill. Free will was in play there---people who did not want to do their job right. We also have very real accidents through and they happen. No one's fault, they just happen.
I don't believe God punishes anyone by giving them aids or any disease. We all know how we get diseases, some are avoidable and some not. Aids is caused by unprotected sexual contact with a person who has it like any of the other sexually transmitted diseases just like any contractible disease. It is also caused by dirty needles.
The bible does say to live a clean life. It does give guidelines on how to do that. It has steps for sexual living and staying well. If people want to ignore it then they will ignore it. Yes, free will has a lot to do with it all.
God sees and must be very sad we do not follow His words. We would be happier if we did follow His words. Just like a parent who has warned us but we go out and do it anyway.
I don't believe God made the oil spill. Free will was in play there---people who did not want to do their job right. We also have very real accidents through and they happen. No one's fault, they just happen.
I don't believe God punishes anyone by giving them aids or any disease. We all know how we get diseases, some are avoidable and some not. Aids is caused by unprotected sexual contact with a person who has it like any of the other sexually transmitted diseases just like any contractible disease. It is also caused by dirty needles.
The bible does say to live a clean life. It does give guidelines on how to do that. It has steps for sexual living and staying well. If people want to ignore it then they will ignore it. Yes, free will has a lot to do with it all.
God sees and must be very sad we do not follow His words. We would be happier if we did follow His words. Just like a parent who has warned us but we go out and do it anyway.
If God is everything and everything stems from him/her/it, then how is the oil spill not God's creation? If God is everything, then God must also be responsible for evil as well, since it would not exist without God having created it in the first place.
If God has free will and he gave us the same power/affliction, why would it matter to him/her/it what we do with it? I haven't read anywhere that free will comes with exclusions. I didn't see any asterisks or footnotes in the agreement.
The concept of judgment by something outside of oneself is an attempt by humans to remove themselves of responsibility for creating their world. If it's good, it's by God's grace and if it's bad, it's not. Never in the minds of most modern day Christians would the thought ever occur that they themselves are responsible. They can't imagine equality with God.
"God works in mysterious ways" kind of shuts people up so they don't ask the hard questions. Well, somebody needs to start asking those questions. I know I did many years ago.
How to Christians feel about the fact that babies who die before having a chance to accept Jesus will end up burning in hell for all eternity?
================================================== =====================
Babies go to heaven. They did not have a chance to learn about God or to accpet Him.
================================================== =========================
How do Christians feel about murderers, rapists, those who abused children and were very horrible people while alive never receiving any justice after death for the misery they caused because they accept Jesus on their deathbed?
================================================== ======================
If they are TRULY SORRY then that is up to God to decide. I am just glad I do not have to make those hard decisions. Only God knows their hearts.
I'll assume you call yourself a Christian. You are claiming that some people are becoming "less" than human which smacks of moral superiority. One could easily infer from your statement that Christians are better than others. Doesn't that go against Christian teachings? I also think you're insulting monkeys and swamp scum, but that's another matter.
Speak for yourself and please do not read things into my post that weren't intended.
I love monkeys. I think they are among the most fascinating of God's creatures. However, personally, I've never been particularly fond of swamp scum, nor all the things that live there. But, that's just me.
are you saying you can be good and it still isn't good enough unless you are saved by accepting jesus? as for people in prison even if you forgive them, their actions alone should keep them from enjoying things that people who have lived a good life do...like "heaven" and life on the outside world.
a god that seeks vengeance is one I could never follow. man does know what we are already, man makes the choice on how to live our lives. you either do it right or not.[/quote]
God does not seek vengeance. That is why God came down to earth in the form of the man Jesus. There are those who deny the Deity of Jesus just as they deny the existence of God, but that's understandable. If you won't believe in a God, you won't believe that Jesus is God.
Chuck Colson, "The God of Stones and Spiders". Good read. He discovered God while in prison, and went on to have a prison ministry.
There is a lot of misunderstanding in many of these posts about God, Jesus and New Testament teachings. It's rather remarkable that people will accept that God does not exist, then proceed on the basis of what they think they know and not be interested in learning more.
"Seek and you shall find" is as true to day as it was when Jesus spoke those words.
If God is everything and everything stems from him/her/it, then how is the oil spill not God's creation? If God is everything, then God must also be responsible for evil as well, since it would not exist without God having created it in the first place.
========
Evil is the absence of good. God did not create evil. Everything has an opposite. So if people chose not to do good then we are left with evil.
================================================== ====
If we have free will and God apparently suffers from the same affliction, and if God is responsible for giving us free will, why would it matter to him/her/it what we do with it? I haven't read anywhere that free will comes with exclusions. I didn't see any asterisks or footnotes in the agreement.
=======
Free will is not an affliction. Go to a communist country and see if free will is an affliction. Freedom is a good thing and God will not take it away from us. It matters what we do with it because it can harm us and others. No there is no exclusions---some people just do not live in a free state or country.
================================================== ====
The concept of judgment by something outside of oneself is an attempt by humans to remove themselves of responsibility for creating their world. If it's good, it's by God's grace and if it's bad, it's not. Never in the minds of most modern day Christians would the thought ever occur that they themselves are responsible. They can't imagine equality with God. "God works in mysterious ways" kind of shuts people up so they don't ask the hard questions. Well, somebody needs to start asking those questions. I know I did many years ago.
=================
If you think some have JUST started asking those hard questions then you have not studied very much. They have been asked throughout the ages for all time.
Christians know they are responsible for what they make of their lives. We don't blame God if we should sin, we know it is our own fault. Why do you think we ask for forgiveness? I don't know anyone who says God made them do it---that was just a comedy sketch by Flip Wilson.
And NO, Christians would not imagine they are equal to God. No one can be equal to God.
There is a big problem with #2. Doesn't your bible say that if those murderers, rapists, and child abusers just believe in Jesus and ask for forgivness that they will be "saved"? Yep I think it does!
Not to mention that the god of the bible gladly commited murder, had some very bizzare rules for rape victims, and was fine and dandy with child abuse. Heck at one point you were to stone your "bad" kid to death!
God committed murder?
God is the creator so God can take life away. ONLY GOD. There are worse things than death. Eternal damnation is worse.
As for the other things you would need to point them out in context to understand. I know people pick and chose to prove a point--it's done on both sides I know. It's only when we study the passages can we understand what was happening. It is usually man trying to be God that the wrong happened.
I don't see Christians stoning anyone, I do see some sects of Muslims doing it though.
I know you are moral people. So where did you learn your morals? Who taught you right from wrong and were they Christian? Are your parents Christian or Atheists? How about your extended family? Christian or Atheists?
You're joking right??? It'd be pretty hard to miss if you've ever read the bible...not only murder but many and sundry other abominations.
I know the Old Testament is very bloody. I am saying God created life and God can take it away. People sinning and hurting others can be struck down by God. I need to read the text to know what was going on, it usually was people living is dissipation that were struck down.
It seems some get stuck in the Old Testament and never go on the the New Testament that are against the bible.
are you saying you can be good and it still isn't good enough unless you are saved by accepting jesus?
I'm not saying that. The Bible says that, even Jesus said that unless one is born again, one cannot see the kingdom of heaven, and he also said that HE is the way. He is the only way.
Now, we know he actually lived. It's a fact (we don't have to "believe" that), would you agree with that at least? Then, the question is, who was this Jesus?
I believe Jesus the Christ was all that He claimed to be, all that His disciples said He was, and that He was the fulfillment all OT Messianic prophecies. There were Jews of His day who knew the Scriptures and recognized that, heard His teachings, saw the miracles He performed, they believedf and followed Him. And so was born Christianity, "those Christ ones" as they were called in the very early days.
He came to earth so that we could see God. He said "I and the Father are one". "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father". Further, He came to earth to die in our place, for the universal laws on earth and in the realms that God inhabits set the wages of sin -- death. That's just the way it is.
Except Jesus received what we deserved: Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever (that means anybody) believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
However, personally, I've never been particularly fond of swamp scum, nor all the things that live there. But, that's just me.
I have more questions for the Atheists---
