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Old 06-28-2010, 05:00 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Then why did you respond to what I wrote? I was speaking about physical death and you started talking about spiritual.

Because I wanted too.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:01 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
32,934 posts, read 26,160,446 times
Reputation: 16087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. To say that a person must be born again so that he may bellieve is putting the cart before the horse. One must first believe so that he can be born again or regenerated

Acts 16:30 'and after he brought them out, he said, ''Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' [31] And they said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved...''


Regeneration is the result of having believed. Not the cause. The call of God is issued through the Gospel. 2 Thess 2:14 ''And it was for this He called you through our Gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord.

John 6:44 ''No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44 is then immediately explained by John 6:45. ''It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

Heard - learned - comes.

God has placed within man an emptyness that can only be fulfilled by Him. God has made Himself known through His creation, and more specifically through the Gospel. Man is spiritually dead and therefore cannot understand spiritual phenomenon. The Gospel is spiritual phenomenon. Therefore, the Holy Spirit in His ministry of common grace makes the Gospel understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever. The hearer of the Gospel, having understood the issue, must then make a decision to either obey the Gospel by believing in Christ for salvation, or disobeying the Gospel by rejecting Jesus Christ as Savior. If the hearer of the Gospel, upon understanding it, decides to place his faith in Christ for salvation, then the Holy Spirit at that point makes the faith of the hearer efficacious. He carries the faith of the spiritually dead hearer to the point of salvation. The Holy Spirit makes that person's faith effective for salvation.

Jesus told Nicodemous that he must be born again (John 3:1-21). And so that Nicodemous could understand the issue so that he could be born again or regenerated, Jesus gave the Gospel message to him.


The very purpose of the Gospel message is so that the hearer can understand the issue in order that he might be born again or regenerated through faith in Christ.

The Gospel message is first heard. Then the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel message perspicacious to the hearer. The hearer then considers the facts and either says 'yes' or 'no' to the Gospel call. If he says 'yes', then he is born again or regenerated.

Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit

The Gospel message presents the issue involved in salvation. This allows the hearer to make a choice. If his choice is to receive Jesus Christ as Savior, then the Holy Spirit regenerates that person meaning that he is born again.

The Gospel message reveals what Christ did on behalf of man. It lays out the issue. As a result of a positive response to the Gospel, the Holy Spirit then does His part in salvation which is to carry the faith of the hearer to the point of salvation.

Faith precedes salvation.

(If) The Gospel message prompts a positive faith response, then he is regenerated. He is born again as a result of having believed in Christ for salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Like i said...your understanding is dim...whether you want to acknowledge it or not...
Then prove all of the above wrong boy. Prove it to be wrong or remain silent about things of which you know nothing.

Demonstrate that Acts 16:31 which says 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' really means 'first be saved and then you will believe.'

You have said that you must first be saved to understand the Gospel. This is totally backwards.

I have shown above that the Scriptures make it clear that you are called through the Gospel and that you must respond to the Gospel in order to be saved. Prove that to be wrong instead of just saying that my understanding is dim.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:02 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,087,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Your understanding is also dim...you read but do not understand...Christ Came to save the Elect...the implications are there in the scriptures...
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2 : 2

The reality that He is the Savior of All is right there in the scriptures . It would take a hardened heart to deny that He at the very least came to save All.

Last edited by pcamps; 06-28-2010 at 05:03 PM.. Reason: J
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 3,213,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Because I wanted too.
Ok
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:07 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
To pagan philosophers, the stoics in fact ... Paul had made reference to the pagan poets, saying that all mankind is the offspring of God, for we move and breath and have our being in him.
Your understanding of what he was trying to impart is dim...
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:09 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,087,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Your understanding of what he was trying to impart is dim...
What was he trying to impart ?
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Actually it is your theology that has no assurance, your claims are moot, for is it is God who will only choose some, but not all.

In the absolute sense you have no assurance that your chosen, NONE.


Saying you are is irrelevant to your theology.


try again.
try as you will...your understanding is still dim...
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:15 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike555 View Post
then prove all of the above wrong boy. Prove it to be wrong or remain silent about things of which you know nothing.

Demonstrate that acts 16:31 which says 'believe in the lord jesus and you will be saved' really means 'first be saved and then you will believe.'

you have said that you must first be saved to understand the gospel. This is totally backwards.

I have shown above that the scriptures make it clear that you are called through the gospel and that you must respond to the gospel in order to be saved. Prove that to be wrong instead of just saying that my understanding is dim.
who you callin' boy you racist!!!!!
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:15 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,912,066 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
try as you will...your understanding is still dim...

There was no trying, I did demonstrate that your theology offers you no assurance in the absolute sense of what it states.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,861,394 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Then prove all of the above wrong boy. Prove it to be wrong or remain silent about things of which you know nothing.

Demonstrate that Acts 16:31 which says 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' really means 'first be saved and then you will believe.'

You have said that you must first be saved to understand the Gospel. This is totally backwards.

I have shown above that the Scriptures make it clear that you are called through the Gospel and that you must respond to the Gospel in order to be saved. Prove that to be wrong instead of just saying that my understanding is dim.

I did not say that...
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