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See, the reason I asked is because I'm a New Yorker. We got past that trauma--which, incidentally, was literally a lot closer to home for us than it was for you. You apparently haven't. (You'll notice I don't go so far as to claim that Americans in general haven't. That's because I have a crazy suspicion that you aren't actually speaking on behalf of Americans in general).
Fred, you make a good point about New Yorkers. I lived in Brooklyn at the time of the attacks. A couple days after the attacks, I took one of my neighbors to the grocery store. She was a young girl of Yemeni descent, and was wearing a head cover and long dress, and I could not believe that we were able to walk amongst all the people there without anyone really giving us dirty looks, stares or any negative reaction. I could not believe the indifference we were treated with considering what had just happened. (This is at the same time INDIANS were being mistaken for terrorists and were getting attacked in the Southwest)
I don't know how many Tennesseans there are on this board, but Monday night four candidates for governor met in a debate. I have never heard such open bigotry on live t.v. I found a clip. It's SO offensive to me.
First guy = Haslam, Republican
Second guy = McWherter, Democrat
Third guy = Ramsey, Republican
Fourth guy = Wamp, Republican - likely winner, supported by Dave Ramsey & Michael W. Smith. I'm just saying.
Heh, this is happening in my hometown. And to be honest, the things I've been hearing and seeing lately don't really surprise me at all. What surprises me is that there are actually some people in this town who don't oppose this mosque. There have been some truly idiotic letters published in the local paper, but I've also seen some very level-headed ones as well. Encouraging. There was a thread about this in the Nashville forums, so I'll just repost my comment from that thread:
Quote:
When I first heard about this my first thought was, "Where is Veals Road?" Considering the uproar this has caused, I assumed Veals Road must run right through the middle of a large, popular subdivision. But a quick check of Google Maps would suggest otherwise. It appears to be more of a country lane with mostly fields and the occasional house. I could understand not wanting a huge center of worship smack dab in the middle of a subdivision. Of course, there is a MASSIVE church at the back side of Regency Park, and I can't remember it causing such outrage. So maybe the few residents who actually live on this road simply don't want the additional traffic this facility might cause. But it seems there are a LOT more people outraged by this than only those who live on the road. There really aren't that many houses on Veals Road, after all. Plus there is a Baptist church under construction quite nearby on Bradyville Pike, and I haven't heard a peep about that. The only other thing I can think of as the cause of this anger is that the group proposing the building are Muslim. But obviously this group already lives and worships here, they just want a larger, nice building. It's not like 3000+ Muslims just moved to town the other day and decided to build a building. So I'm at a loss as to the reason of this controversy.
So what we have is basically a group of people who, apparently, had no earthly idea that there were *gasp* Muslims living in our town. Now all of a sudden they're outraged that these Muslims have outgrown their current building. I guess they think that if the mosque isn't built, the Muslims will just pack up and leave town. As far as I know, throughout all of this the Muslim community has been polite, calm, and basically just acting like adults, unlike their counterparts.
The video posted above is incredibly mild compared to the things I've been hearing (though considering it was televised...wow). I heard someone yesterday say that if he saw a Muslim kneeling to pray he would kick him/her in the head. Today I heard the comment that it's a shame someone didn't set off a bomb at the protest last night, so that any Muslims and their supporters would be killed. Some of these people are more insane than some of you may realize, and most of them are doing it in the name of Christianity.
For those who don't know, yesterday afternoon a group of several hundred protesters who oppose the mosque marched down Main Street in a symbolic gesture to deliver a petition to the courthouse. They were met at the courthouse by a counter-protest with just as many members. I honestly worried that it would turn into a riot. But luckily there was no violence, just a lot of idiotic rhetoric thrown about. In the paper today there was a quote by one man who said to two Muslim women in attendance, "The Constitution doesn't apply to you!"
First off, what a douche-bag. Secondly, wtf does that even mean?
All I know is that some of my fellow Tennesseans have been very embarrassing of late. By the way, did I mention the sign at the proposed construction site has already been vandalized twice? Yes, very Christian-like behavior. I'm sure Jesus would have gone around acting like an obnoxious juvenile, too. Fortunately, not everyone here is this loony. A couple weeks ago some Christians gathered at the courthouse to have a prayer vigil in support of our Muslim neighbors. I like to think that most Christians in the country would have attended that meeting, and not the others. I find it ironic the most vehement Christians in town are probably more radical and extremist than the very people they are complaining about. I guess that never occurred to them, though.
I found out about the counter-protest too late to drive up from Chattanooga. I am appalled that the candidates for governor were so bigoted. I don't know who to vote for, but I can tell you who I won't be voting for. I am ashamed of the Tennesseans I've heard about and read about that would say such evil things - like what you quoted. If this state continues down this road, we will not raise our children here. The candidates want ID in schools (which has been ruled illegal) and to persecute Muslims. Awful. Awful and evil.
Thank you, Lamp, for posting that information. Not much is making the local news here in Chat. If there are any more protests / counter-protests planned, could you DM me? I'd like to take part. I'm an atheist, but this country was founded on freedom of (and from religion). I support the Muslims' right to build a mosque, the Buddhists' right to build a temple, or a Bahaiis' right to build a church. This behavior is unconstitutional and very Medieval.
If there are any more protests / counter-protests planned, could you DM me? I'd like to take part.
I will. Hopefully I'll hear about it in time to inform you.
I have a feeling we'll be in for more humiliating and degrading behavior if this mosque ever gets under way. I can imagine lots of vandalism during and after construction. The Muslim community here would have been better off to construct a building that looks like a warehouse and placed a very subtle sign out front, if at all.
It's just terrible. This is the sort of behavior done to people individually and en masse that turned me away from the church. I'd be happy to tell that to them too at the next protest.
There are some real gems in there, like this beauty:
Luckily we're a college town, so the rabid Christians were balanced rather nicely by the tie-die wearing hippies. I'm just glad no fights broke out. This is embarrassing enough already.
I find the average ages of the two groups the most interesting. Most of the photos showed older people (over 40) opposing the mosque and younger people (under 40) supporting it. There were a few exceptions like the old woman with the sign "Freedom of Religion Means Freedom for All Religions" (#37). Age is an interesting component. I do think this whole fight is due to fear, ignorance and bigotry. I also think it's embarrassing as a Tennessean.
Yes, I noticed the age difference as well. What I find fascinating is that I keep hearing the protesters are simply angry because the approval for the site supposedly went through so smoothly, without the public's knowledge. But the signs they are holding would suggest otherwise. And I've never seen people become so enraged over boring zoning and approval issues. I also don't recall being notified when the already huge World Outreach church was approved for a MASSIVE addition. No one seemed to have a problem with that church, or the many other new Christian churches being built in the area. It's pretty obvious that the real issue here is the fact that it's a mosque. And that makes even less sense because there IS ALREADY A MOSQUE IN TOWN.
I predicted exactly this would happen, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the site continues to come under attack. What's next, setting off car bombs when the Muslims are holding a service? How radical are some Christians willing to become in opposing this mosque? As radical as the terrorists they claim to hate so much?
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Fortunately, not everyone here is this loony. A couple weeks ago some Christians gathered at the courthouse to have a prayer vigil in support of our Muslim neighbors. I like to think that most Christians in the country would have attended that meeting, and not the others. I find it ironic the most vehement Christians in town are probably more radical and extremist than the very people they are complaining about. I guess that never occurred to them, though.
I'm just glad no fights broke out. This is embarrassing enough already.
