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Why are people so selfish that they need to have an answer to all the unknowns of the world.
The better question would be why do people speculate on it and then call it FACT and TRUTH??? An UNKNOWN is just that...UNKNOWN...and speculating on what one thinks it might be without any valid proof or evidence...does not make FACT or TRUTH.
I sincerely would like to know why it is so hard for the religious to just say: "WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT ALL STARTED"...because the simple FACT is WE DON'T KNOW AND WE MAY NEVER KNOW.
Maybe our whole universe was a science project for some kid in a science class in some other, much bigger universe. Maybe we are like an ant farm for some kid. Just my 2 cents!
And if one chooses to go with the Goddunit theory...your theory above would be just as valid. When speculating...the possibilities are ENDLESS.
If the Bible is in fact true, that would put those believing in the revealed truth in a very advantageous position with respect to knowledge of God's character.
Well lead on maestro! Explain, scientifically, why we should logically conclude that the universe has always existed - I say again, lead on!
Which is it? Are you claiming ignorance or are you claiming that it's logical to conclude that the universe has always existed?
The book....the book.
I don't mind being corrected but to the best of my recollection where god was or what he was doing before he played his creation act was not addressed in the Bible so the book doesn't provide many answers, actually.
It's been said theists take the easy way out by claiming "goddunit".
Funny, I find it not only more logical but much easier to believe the universe just has always been......always ,apparently , being a concept beyond some peoples imagination.
The book....the book.
I don't mind being corrected but to the best of my recollection where god was or what he was doing before he played his creation act was not addressed in the Bible so the book doesn't provide many answers, actually.
Whether or not you or anyone else chooses to believe the Bible is missing the point. If the Bible is in fact true, that would put those believing in true revelation in a much better position with respect to knowledge about God's character.
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Originally Posted by old_cold
It's been said theists take the easy way out by claiming "goddunit".
Funny, I find it not only more logical but much easier to believe the universe just has always been......always ,apparently , being a concept beyond some peoples imagination.
While it may be "easier" for you to accept the eternal universe hypothesis, you've done nothing to demonstrate it to be any more reasonable than "goddunit."
Fideism, Fidelism, Fidoism, or Fiddleism... Is not really the central thing I get focused on in debates such as this. What discourages me, disorients me, and sometimes makes me angry is the general lack of understanding of certain scientific theories such as what the OP described:
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Originally Posted by Rocks4
Sometimes I hear a person say the big bang created the world.
But if there was only blank space in the beginning... literally blank space... how could something form in it? There would be no matter to speak of, just empty room.
So what put the matter there? God?
The Big Bang did not create the world. The theory does not suggest that one day there was nothing and then all of a sudden "BAM" out spat planets, stars, galaxies and the rest of the universe. I'm not going to go into the Big Bang and why it was an 'expansion' of spacetime rather than a sudden "creative explosion."
This post, innocent though it may be, is a good general example of the misinformation of science and how it leads to flawed thinking about the origins of the universe. I have to admit... If I didn't know any better and someone told me that scientists believed a big explosion threw the universe (planets, galaxies, etc...) into existence, I'd be pretty skeptical myself. In fact, it would remind far too much of the common Creationist theory of spontaneous appearances.
I blame two things for this gross misinformation: Religion and education. I know religion purposely distorts the meanings and explanations of many scientific theories simply due to the fact that it presents a conflict with faith. Unfortunately, our education systems have not done a good enough job presenting people with wholesome and accurate enough information to refute these misinterpretations. Meanwhile, religion also continues to hold a foothold on people's minds, giving the appearance that they know more than science - regardless of how absurd and ridiculous they end up sounding.
To the OP:
There are a variety of good books you can read to get a generally good understanding of what Big Bang Theory actually states. For starters, I would recommend Brian Greene's The Fabric of the Cosmos. It's a delightful book full of great explanations.
While it may be "easier" for you to accept the eternal universe hypothesis, you've done nothing to demonstrate it to be any more reasonable than "goddunit."
Other than the fact that all the available evidence points in that direction.
Seriously ... anything is more "reasonable" than saying an invisible sky magician poofed it all into existence. You might as well say two unicorns and a leprechaun did it, for all the logic and usefulness any religious claim brings to the table.
If the Bible is in fact true, that would put those believing in the revealed truth in a very advantageous position with respect to knowledge of God's character.
And of course the Bible lends itself to no independent verification. It's all just a bunch of fantastical, unprovable claims, no different from the gods and creation stories that dozens of other cultures have dreamed up over the millennia. What makes the Bible story any more credible than the Hindu creation myths, for example? Nothing.
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Well lead on maestro! Explain, scientifically, why we should logically conclude that the universe has always existed - I say again, lead on!
Because that's what the available evidence points to. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.
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Which is it? Are you claiming ignorance or are you claiming that it's logical to conclude that the universe has always existed?
The best evidence we have is that the universe has always existed, but it is not definitive. I guess you think you feel smug thinking you've caught me in a contradiction, but you haven't. Unlike you, I HAVE NO IDEA how the universe ultimately "began." What we know logically SUGGESTS that the universe is eternal, but WE DON'T KNOW. Science could produce new evidence tomorrow that tells us something different entirely. And THAT'S OK. I'm not the one defensively clinging to a 2,000-year-old myth in the face of mounds of contradictory evidence. If science leads us in a new direction, that's fine. Hell, if someone proves that the entire Genesis creation story is true, as unlikely and absurd as that seems, then that's fine, too.
I go as far as logic and reason will take me and then say "I don't know." Again, this doesn't seem to be a hard concept to grasp.
Sometimes I hear a person say the big bang created the world.
Another reason why we know it was what we call the "Big Bang"....it has the ultimate evidence to support it...since Monsignor Georges Lemaitre got the hypothesis for his theory from the Bible, and researched it from there.
You always have to first consult God when trying to figure out things relative to universe and world creation...since He did it.
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