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Old 11-16-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,892,003 times
Reputation: 980

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Actually, they did. 9 of the original 13 states had official religions, and they didn't want any state or the Federal Government from telling them they couldn't practice their religion.
All right, then -- I have the legal right, under your reasoning, to refuse to serve Christians in any business capacity. Thus, if a Christian approaches me to rent an apartment, or for employment, I'm free to tell them to sit and spin because they're not Pagan* and Federal protections don't apply.

Sound fair?

*Note that I have not, and would not ever, be so obnoxious as to do so (even if I managed an apartment complex, which I don't).
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:53 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,192,123 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
All right, then -- I have the legal right, under your reasoning, to refuse to serve Christians in any business capacity. Thus, if a Christian approaches me to rent an apartment, or for employment, I'm free to tell them to sit and spin because they're not Pagan* and Federal protections don't apply.

Sound fair?

*Note that I have not, and would not ever, be so obnoxious as to do so (even if I managed an apartment complex, which I don't).
Since it's illegal to discriminate based on religion, I don't believe you could do that.
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,892,003 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Practicing our religion is not a series of actions. It is maintaining the standard of morality that God has declared for us. Kim Davis was jailed because she refused to endorse same sex marriage. The government created a law that infringed on her right to freely oppose SSM without consequences.
The government jailed Kim Davis because she violated her oath, which requires impartiality in the execution of her duties.

Congratulations, Jeff, you just raised the third of my three criteria: that a government employee does not have the 'right' to violate the legal standards of their employment simply because it's not in accordance with her religious belief.
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,892,003 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Since it's illegal to discriminate based on religion, I don't believe you could do that.
And yet you have no problem with Kim Davis violating the law and discriminating against same-sex couples based on her religious beliefs.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:00 PM
 
10,087 posts, read 5,734,940 times
Reputation: 2899
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
The government jailed Kim Davis because she violated her oath, which requires impartiality in the execution of her duties.

Congratulations, Jeff, you just raised the third of my three criteria: that a government employee does not have the 'right' to violate the legal standards of their employment simply because it's not in accordance with her religious belief.
And the government doesn't have the right to create a law that prevents the free of exercise of one's religious beliefs and freedoms. With your logic, the government could create a law for government employees to burn Bibles and Kim Davis must perform this action.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,892,003 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
And the government doesn't have the right to create a law that prevents the free of exercise of one's religious beliefs and freedoms. With your logic, the government could create a law for government employees to burn Bibles and Kim Davis must perform this action.
Kim Davis was in contempt of court for refusing to obey a Federal court order (and I will point out again that Article VI of the Constitution gives the Constitution and Federal law primacy over state law).

There is no 'religious freedom' that allows someone to violate the law, nor does the practice of Christianity require that she break the law (in fact, I believe that 'that shalt not steal' is one of the Ten Commandments). By the logic you have just presented, a bank teller could steal from her bank because it charges interest and her religion prohibits usury.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,673 posts, read 15,672,301 times
Reputation: 10924
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Practicing our religion is not a series of actions. It is maintaining the standard of morality that God has declared for us. Kim Davis was jailed because she refused to endorse same sex marriage. The government created a law that infringed on her right to freely oppose SSM without consequences.
That sounds a lot like saying "I'll let you know what violates my religion when I see a law I don't like."

Kim Davis was not jailed for refusing to endorse SSM. She was jailed because she chose to defy a federal court judge's order. Show what your religion has defined as the tenets of your faith for the past century or so, and you'll probably find almost zero disagreement from the entire community here in this forum for your right to practice those tenets. It's really nor fair to start adding provisions to your religion and claim that's what you believe is fundamental to your church when the founders of your denomination never said a word about those things.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:26 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,192,123 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
That sounds a lot like saying "I'll let you know what violates my religion when I see a law I don't like."
No. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I said I'd let you know when I see a violation. The fact that you and I may disagree on it does not mean that it's only me disliking it.
Quote:
Kim Davis was not jailed for refusing to endorse SSM. She was jailed because she chose to defy a federal court judge's order.
And there have been plenty of other politicians in our government that have refused to obey the law. She was taken to court over that fact. I'm sorry that you can't see the issue. You have failed to understand this sort of thing in the past.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,892,003 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
And there have been plenty of other politicians in our government that have refused to obey the law. She was taken to court over that fact. I'm sorry that you can't see the issue. You have failed to understand this sort of thing in the past.
'Other people have done it, so Kim Davis can do it, too'?

Come on, Vizio, quit insulting our intelligence. It's not 'suddenly okay' just because someone else has done it.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:41 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,177,253 times
Reputation: 32581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post

And there have been plenty of other politicians in our government that have refused to obey the law.
"Plenty". The word used when someone doesn't know if the actual number is four or 10,235,823.

Doesn't matter, though. Government officials who refuse to obey the law are subject TO the law. Which is why Ms. Davis found herself sitting in the hoosegow.
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