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Old 08-20-2010, 08:02 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,638,372 times
Reputation: 20198

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCincorrect View Post
I think if we held the opinion that we are a nation of all religions and types of beliefs we would be enforcing our freedom of religion and not singling out one form/type of faith.
IMO, the comment, "We are not a nation of Christians" nullifies that faith where as expressing we are a nation of all faiths validates them, and validates all of them .
We are also a nation of NO religions and types of beliefs. It is all encompassing. We are not -only- allowed to believe what we want. We are -also- allowed to have no particular beliefs at all.

We are a nation of all beliefs, AND no beliefs. We are a nation of freedom to decide what to worship, AND we are a nation of freedom to decide not to worship anything.

The whole "in god we trust" on dollar bills and "one nation under god" in the Pledge aside, look at how we worship in this country:

What do you see most the week of Christmas? People out picking up their new Church outfit for Midnite Mass? Or people out picking their fake pagan tree at the local Christmas Tree Shop chain store, or cutting down yet another tree just so you can toss tinsel the day before Santa brings a new Wii to Junior?

Do you see children learning about GIVING on Christmas, or do you see children writing out what they want to GET for Christmas?

This is what our Nation's Christians do. They consume. They consume for Easter, with cream-filled chocolate pagan egg-laying bunnies that exist to represent the Spring Equinox and fertility and Mother Earth. They do it in the name of Jesus.

They get the day off on Good Friday so that they can shop the sales. And on Fat Tuesday they get drunk and flash their breasts for Jesus.

Yes, ours is a Christian nation. If that's how you define Christian.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:06 PM
 
1,743 posts, read 2,151,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
You are aware the Salvation Army is a Christian denomination, right?

The Salvation Army: What We Believe

This is why I always donate to Goodwill Industries and other secular charities that focus on actually helping people without pushing their dogma in the process.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,473,614 times
Reputation: 16449
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
The Constitution not only doesn't make mention of any gods, but it specifies a decree to keep religion and government seperate.
The USA has no official religion. Period.
Check out the Declaration of Independence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
You are aware the Salvation Army is a Christian denomination, right?

The Salvation Army: What We Believe
Hey give the guy a break. He is just being open minded and putting his money where it does the most local good,

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
This is why I always donate to Goodwill Industries and other secular charities that focus on actually helping people without pushing their dogma in the process.
Yea it really sucks when people's lives are fixed thru religion.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,638,372 times
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The Declaration of Independence isn't a legal document and has no bearing on whether or not the USA is a "Christian Nation." The Constitution, however, is a legal document, and very specifically charges the government to keep itself seperate from religion. That means, the government, which is "We the People," is not defined as a Christian Nation. It is, in fact, defined as a non-denominational nation, by virtue of the first amendment, which prohibits government from creating a national religion (among other things).
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,071,587 times
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Whether or not Christians choose to view this as a Christian nation, it doesn't change the facts. Their opinion is completely irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that we have freedom of religion. Our country is made up of people of all different faiths. So - no, we are not a Christian nation. And those that choose to believe that - well, just because you choose to believe something doesn't make it true. You could "choose" to believe that I am a man. But no matter how much you believe that - I am, in fact, a woman.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:14 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,459,115 times
Reputation: 6783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Hey give the guy a break. He is just being open minded and putting his money where it does the most local good,
Although I think you're being tongue-in-cheek I do know of atheist who know what the Salvation Army is, but give to it anyway. I don't think atheism automatically translates to seeing oneself as an enemy to Christianity or Christianity as an enemy of oneself. In fact, before I came here, most atheists I knew tended to be more tolerant and pragmatic than I'd been lead to believe. I know I mention it a great deal already, but the more intolerant and proselytizing nature of atheism here still surprises me at times. In some ways it's more exciting, as it's more challenging, but it's also obviously more obnoxious in a way common for intolerant preaching movements.

It did strike me weird with MG as in that very post he went on about how "none of it gets spent for oak or mahagony pews, expensive carpeting, preacher expenses, stained glass windows, musical instruments, expensive sound systms, missionary trips(boondoggles) or brainwashing children with that 2000 year old Jewish fairy tale." Making it clear that any money going to Christians offends him somehow. People like him tend to just make me glad I'm a post-Vatican II Catholic. I can give to the Aga Khan Foundation or the Dalai Lama or whatever. I can see the beauty in other religions and in the writings of atheists. They might be deficient, but they're not bad or totally false. I don't have to obsess on some notion of "brainwashing" or a desire to belittle old things or hate new things or any of that crud. Even when some atheists here make a point it usually amounts to "Maybe Christians are wrong, but thanks for pointing out that you are way more wrong."

As to the main issue as a society the US is primarily Christian. Even many of those listed as "unaffiliated" count themselves as believers in Christ, make them more like Anne Rice than Richard Dawkins. However as a nation, in the sense of a political entity, the US is not specifically of any religion. Although the Declaration, the Articles, and certain other early works indicate it is built with recognizing some kind of God. Possibly more Voltaire's than Leibniz's, but still God of some form.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:35 PM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,608,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
The answer is, no we're not a Christian nation. Where did you get the notion that we are one? Neither the Declaration of Independence, the Article of Confederacy, nor the Constitution state that we are a Christian nation.

The Constitution not only doesn't make mention of any gods, but it specifies a decree to keep religion and government seperate.
The USA has no official religion. Period.
"The Documents" drawn up by those dudes, after the country was stolen (mostly by force) from the rightful owners, only say...the current government, "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". But that has NOTHING to do with what this country ACTUALLY IS.

Most in the U.S. subscribe to Christianity. So if one is to base it on "current available information"...this country IS a Christian Nation. Just like it is basically a "white nation", and a "heterosexual nation", and a "gun owning nation", and a "meat eating nation", and AAAAAAALL the other things the ones who don't fall into the majority like to say that we are not, simply because the government didn't say that's what we HAD to be...even though it is a FACT, we are.

We ARE, what we ARE...we can't be anything other than what most of the people ARE...and a FULL 3/4 say they ARE Christian...hence, we ARE a Christian Nation.

For example: If someones ancestors were all born in, say, Ireland...except for one set of great-grandparents, that were from France...you'd basically disregard the 1/4th French when stating that persons' ethnicity (even though it was a full 25% of their heritage), and say they are Irish.

The USA IS a Christian Nation. It doesn't HAVE to be...but it IS. PERIOD.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,071,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
"The Documents" drawn up by those dudes, after the country was stolen (mostly by force) from the rightful owners, only say...the current government, "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". But that has NOTHING to do with what this country ACTUALLY IS.

Most in the U.S. subscribe to Christianity. So if one is to base it on "current available information"...this country IS a Christian Nation. Just like it is basically a "white nation", and a "heterosexual nation", and a "gun owning nation", and a "meat eating nation", and AAAAAAALL the other things the ones who don't fall into the majority like to say that we are not, simply because the government didn't say that's what we HAD to be...even though it is a FACT, we are.

We ARE, what we ARE...we can't be anything other than what most of the people ARE...and a FULL 3/4 say they ARE Christian...hence, we ARE a Christian Nation.

For example: If someones ancestors were all born in, say, Ireland...except for one set of great-grandparents, that were from France...you'd basically disregard the 1/4th French when stating that persons' ethnicity (even though it was a full 25% of their heritage), and say they are Irish.

The USA IS a Christian Nation. It doesn't HAVE to be...but it IS. PERIOD.
Ahh, my friend. You and I disagree. Which is fine. I still like you!
I guess part of this issue is also based on the interpretation of "Christian Nation." To me - that is not saying that the majority of the people are Christian - that is saying that all of the people are Christian or that you have to be Christian. To me - that says that the country makes decisions based upon Christianity. So - to me, this is not a Christian nation, being that I live here and I am not Christian. However, if you are asking if the majority of the people that live here are Christian - then yes. Still, I would not consider it a Christian nation. We don't have a national religion and we are free to belong or not belong to whatever faith we choose.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:40 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,425,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
This country spends hundreds of billions of dollars each year for the privilege of watching the NFL, the NBA, the NHA, the MLB etc. while nearly a billion people in the world are starving to death or suffering from malnutrition, by default most of them children.

If they were honestly carrying out their charge from no less than Jesus himself is this even within the realm of possibility?
But they build some very expensive monuments to their to honor their delusional beliefs.
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:16 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,608,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Ahh, my friend. You and I disagree. Which is fine. I still like you!
I guess part of this issue is also based on the interpretation of "Christian Nation." To me - that is not saying that the majority of the people are Christian - that is saying that all of the people are Christian or that you have to be Christian. To me - that says that the country makes decisions based upon Christianity. So - to me, this is not a Christian nation, being that I live here and I am not Christian. However, if you are asking if the majority of the people that live here are Christian - then yes. Still, I would not consider it a Christian nation. We don't have a national religion and we are free to belong or not belong to whatever faith we choose.
You know that I respect all views Dewdrop. And I especially respect and admire YOU...and think your posts are some of the best this board has to offer. I know you'd never pass judgment on a simple difference of viewpoint.

I just can't bring myself to define the US as a "NonChristian Nation" on the basis that the government doesn't mandate it...or, like you say, people can point to others, or themselves, who aren't.

It's like saying the country isn't a "computer-using nation", or a "sports watching nation", or an "automobile driving nation", or anything else...just because the government didn't say we HAD to...and there are some who don't do those things.

Here, let me try this...something you can really identify with---Say someone was asked...Is the USA a "Music Listening Nation"? And they answered, "NO, IT'S NOT" the government didn't say we HAD to listen to music...and we legally CAN choose NOT TO...and some DON'T listen". Would you accept that? Or would you argue that this country IS a "Music Listening Nation"...since most do listen to music...even though there is no law saying we have to...and there are some who don't?

I guess what it boils down to, is---What does the government laws have to do with reality? The government has all kinds of laws against all kinds of things...and says we shouldn't do those things, and it is illegal to do so. So, should I now say there aren't any criminals...because you aren't supposed to violate the law?

I don't dispute that this nation doesn't HAVE to be a Christian Nation...and that there are some who aren't Christian. But that doesn't change the fact that this IS a Christian Nation...in the same way it's, say, a fast-food eating nation.
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