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If schools are all private, the 'brainwashing' will be unavoidable because almost all the schools will have a religious affiliation. We need public schools.
There is definitely a point here....he is not saying all kids but most are definitely being steered in the wrong direction! The statistics prove that our children - especially in the public school system- the results of the public schools are underperforming. Today, there is so much focus to remove God and prayer from everything, why? But yet the amount of violence, sex, drugs & language in our music and television shows is OK?? And getting worse! Let's reverse this!
If putting god in school helped schools then you would expect christian schools to be much better than public schools. This is not so. I went to a christian high school and we were the worse school in the county. The only difference between us and the public schools is that we had so much more drinking that we were likened to being like a frat house. Everything else was exactly the same. Same number of teen pregnancies, crime, fighting, drugs, weapons and general mischief. Putting god in school does absolutely nothing to solve problems. It's nothing more than a pseudo solution that is useless. Language, violence, sex and drugs in music and tv doesn't harm anyone. If a muscician or tv show has those things then just don't let your kids watch/listen to such things. This whole thing is just a ploy by conservatives to try and get people to believe their lies and indoctrinate children. Instead of worrying about getting god into public school, go out and find an actual solution. This is the same reason evangelism does nothing to solve problems. The problems will still be there with or without religion.
If schools are all private, the 'brainwashing' will be unavoidable because almost all the schools will have a religious affiliation. We need public schools.
It won't be unavoidable as there are plenty of secular private schools now and it is likely there would be a much higher percentage of secular schools in an all private school educational system.
Still at least whatever the parents chose will be their own choice and not that of a board of education which is essentially a group of politicians.
Can you prove a cause and effect relationship? Are all those events a dependent variable of prayer?
No, he/she can't, because it isn't there. He/she would LIKE it to be there, and they all crowd around in their church anteroom after Sunday Services, tsk-tsking "modern kids" as though they didn't try hard to get away with stuff when they were kids.
The major changes in our society have vastly more to do with density-dependent factors (population, crowding, communication, travel, economics, credit) as well as the feverish focus on digital communications and popular flashy image-based media coverage. Not on the lack of strictly mandated prayer!
Thanks heavens, so to speak, that the OP is NOT in charge of our schools, then moving on to our adult lives, and then our government, and so on.
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Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
Um... you might want to post this on the Christian forum - you are going to get eaten alive here!
Times are a changing, buddy. I don't think you can point to the removal of religion in school for all of these things. And, by the way, where are these "facts" from? Because I haven't had time to research all that the website claims - but in just a quick search - all the websites that I found said that teen pregnancies have been steadily dropping since 1998.
BINGO. But that's not the strident message the acolytes want to sell here. So step back "or you might get some on yah!".
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Originally Posted by fishbrains
The US has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the developed world, according to this Pubmed article.
Scandinavian and Asian countries have the lowest.
Yet the United States is among the most religious countries on the planet, certainly the most religious country in the developed world.
Isn't it interesting how a high degree of religion causes teen pregnancy? After all, Christianity is nowhere near as pervasive in Japan as in the United States, and their rate of teen pregnancy is 7 per 1000, while the US is 52 per thousand.
So, I think that it is very clear that at the very least, for the sake of the teen mothers, we need to become less religious overall, or alternatively, convert to Shintoism.
So logically concluded, and inarguable. Where's the rep tool?
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Originally Posted by me in RI
There is definitely a point here....he is not saying all kids but most are definitely being steered in the wrong direction! The statistics prove that our children - especially in the public school system- the results of the public schools are underperforming. Today, there is so much focus to remove God and prayer from everything, why? But yet the amount of violence, sex, drugs & language in our music and television shows is OK?? And getting worse! Let's reverse this!
Oh puh-leese! The reason to remove mandated "God" from everything is that spirituality is a private and personal matter, not something to be forced on anyone, lest we return yet again to a modern day Spanish Inquisition, which I just know the more fervent Christians would love to see!
Much of the reason for under-performing schools is the antiquated manner in which information is still being taught: via old-fashioned rote memorization, badly edited books and unmotivated teachers. it's been well shown hat a motivated teacher, with the right teaching tools and graphically oriented materials, will achieve far better education than has ever been demonstrated in eh past.
It's most certainly NOT that they don't chant together to a idolic God.
That's absolutely not the answer. Such an antiquated and unwarranted approach would continue to stifle open scientific research and proven information that collides with religion's tenets, and would create a cohort of brainwashed and socially immature young adults all chanting senseless verse in unison. It would further hurt our nation's standing in education and professionalism, already well down among modern nations. The less religious these nations are, the more advanced, progressive and capable they become.
Which is all fine and good until it also gets taken to extremes. There are people for whom ANY prayer is offensive. They arrange to take offense. Then they sue the school and win, and it becomes a big deal and people are afraid to even pray over their food in the cafeteria because they might get sued.
I'd be one of those folks, IM. There is absolutely no place in public school or government for mandated, structured religion of one particular brand. You think there should be? (Please do remember exactly who pays for public schools. It's not just you, it's also me, an atheist!, and I just might pay more taxes than you. now, if that's so, do I get a bigger vote than you? Lemme know on that one, OK?)
I and my children actually would take considerable exception to having your brand of spirituality forced on us on class or in the cafeteria. Why can't kids and their over-zealous parents just keep their very personal thoughts and principles to themselves, one might simply ask?
Why is it that you so desperately want to proselytize in my face?
Essentially, get out of our heads! You aren't welcome there, especially by force!
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Originally Posted by IdahoMormon
The worse thing is that they extend those ideas into other areas, until the school music department can't even have a Christmas concert any more.
If it only focuses on the Christmas story, and not on other options, then yeah, I'd feel there's a strong Christian bias there. Remember, Christians on the school board have also maintained that Halloween parties at schools, and other pagan-based celebrations, should be banned because they are imoral or "of the devil". What nonsense, and quite selective, don't you agree?
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Originally Posted by IdahoMormon
Even if 85% of the students are Christian and the rest don't care, except for one who chooses it as her cause. Have you ever tried selecting music for a concert and discarding anything that didn't at least have religious overtones? And some of the best music is blatantly religious.
So majority rules, and they therefore get to stuff their ideas down others' throats? Why not just keep religion out of (let me repeat for you PUBLICALLY FUNDED schools? Why would I want my children exposed to ancient tribalized mythologies when they are far more interested in logic and truth-based science and engineering?
There's certainly room for (and I'd personally encourage...) a Comparative Religion class in public schools. Why do Christians reject this idea? (We know why: they don't want science, for instance, to go "unchallenged" in it's own dedicated classroom. Too much chance it's unimpeachable logic might catch on in these intelligent kids' minds!)
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Originally Posted by IdahoMormon
Why can't they just have 85% of the music be religious, and 15% be secular, and maybe include one Jewish song and one for the Native American in the school? But that's not good enough. Why should MY daughter have to sing about Christ? Well on the other hand, why shouldn't MY son be able to sing about Christ?
Answer: because this is NOT church! It's PUBLIC SCHOOL. What if you found out that such smarmy religious singing might make other kids psychologically uncomfortable to the point of being nauseated? I certainly was in high school when they briefly re-intro'd school prayer.
Leave religion out of it, or send your child to a private Christian school where they can reject science and bathe in a environment of constant Christian interpretation. Simple enough, huh?
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Originally Posted by IdahoMormon
It's too bad in a choir you can't all just sing about whatever you want. You have to all sing the same thing or it just doesn't sound as good.
How's about we have a nice Muslim face-east-and-bow-down session once a week in school? You going to go for that? Uh-huh.... I'll bet you would....
Remember, Christians on the school board have also maintained that Halloween parties at schools, and other pagan-based celebrations, should be banned because they are imoral or "of the devil".
Many Jewish families object to Halloween, as well as St. Valentine's Day, celebrations in the gov't schools because these are Christian holiday celebrations (Halloween is the contraction of All Hallows' Eve, the evening of All Hallows' Day, now known as All Saints' Day).
Many Jewish families object to Halloween, as well as St. Valentine's Day, celebrations in the gov't schools because these are Christian holiday celebrations (Halloween is the contraction of All Hallows' Eve, the evening of All Hallows' Day, now known as All Saints' Day).
So hardcore Christians say Halloween is satanic and hardcore jews say it's too Christian. I think the middle of the road Christians and Jews have it right - it's a secular non-religious holiday that should be a day of fun for all children.
Today, there is so much focus to remove God and prayer from everything, why?
I don't know, but this might be a big friggin' clue:
Matthew 6:5 “Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. Truly I say to you, they have their reward. 6:6 But whenever you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret.
Those of you who support the school prayer nonsense are basically spitting on Jesus, disrespecting him and kicking him in the balls. Us atheists are just ensuring that you wanna-be christians follow the teachings of your own god for your own good.
You ought to start researching and preparing a good response, because when you die, Jesus is going to say, "Didn't I tell you to pray to your father in secret? I can't dumb it down any farther than that. Is there some part of secret you don't understand? Who died and made you god? What the hell where you thinking?
Don't forget, you cannot believe in Jesus while simultaneously not believing what he said or refusing to follow his teachings.
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PUBLICALLY FUNDED schools? Why would I want my children exposed to ancient tribalized mythologies when they are far more interested in logic and truth-based science and engineering? 
