Is there such a thing as an agnostic theist? (faith, believers, brainwashing)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

I don't know about Gods that were whipped up within the last 10 years creating the Universe though. That wouldn't figure.

What about gods that were "whipped up" in the last 3,000 years? How do they figure in a Universe that is 14 billions years old?

[Huckleberry3911948]

agnostic means a god but very far removed.
so the answer is yes.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Rafius

the 100% lack of belief in gods.

Uhm, isn't the 100% lack of belief in gods not the same as the knowledge that there are no gods?
In other words you don't believe, because you know.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by catman

I think it is possible to be a total agnostic, to just have no idea whether there is a god or not. An agnostic theist is one who doesn't know but either thinks or hopes that there is. IMO, nearly everyone with an open mind is just a bit of an agnostic, since there is no way to absolutely prove the existence or nonexistence of a god. Richard Dawkins leaves open an infintesimal possibility that there is. I'm an agnostic atheist myself. After all, I can't prove it either way, but it seems extremely unlikely. There doesn't seem to be any god worth worshipping "in control", considering what is going on on this benighted planet.

Obviously there are different levels of "Belief":
Theist
Agnostic--leaning toward Theism
Agnostic--with a 50/50 view
Agnostic--leaning toward Atheism
Atheist

Thus...I think "Agnostic Theist" is more accurately the "Agnostic--leaning toward Theism" mindset.

[Maia160]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Obviously there are different levels of "Belief":
Theist
Agnostic--leaning toward Theism
Agnostic--with a 50/50 view
Agnostic--leaning toward Atheism
Atheist

Thus...I think "Agnostic Theist" is more accurately the "Agnostic--leaning toward Theism" mindset.

Most people use those terms in the manner you listed. In fact, up until a year ago I used them in that manner. However, gnosticism and theism have different meanings. Gnosticism addresses what you know and agnosticism addresses what you don't know. Theism addresses what you believe and atheism addresses what you don't believe. So, there are 4 categories:

Gnostic Theist: Knows there is a god and believes there is a god.

Agnostic Theist: Doesn't know if is a god but believes there is a god.

Gnostic Atheist: Knows there isn't a god and believes there isn't a god.

Agnostic Atheist: Doesn't know if there is a god but doesn't believe in a god.

Most of us don't fall exactly on one of these strict definitions. We all fall along a continum. As Sanspeur mentioned, Richard Dawkins attempted to define this continum.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by Rafius

What about gods that were "whipped up" in the last 3,000 years? How do they figure in a Universe that is 14 billions years old?

I assume you mean Bible-God.

Logic would dictate any "Universe Creating God" would have to have been around longer than what was created.

So, the only way "Bible-God" cuts it as far as creation goes...is if He is considered to be metaphorical for the Universal Field that established(s) our, and all, existence.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Yes, that what I'm trying to explain here. You and I have no belief in the existence of gods. We are atheist. BUT, if we say that we are open to the possibility that gods DO exist...what does that make us?

That makes us honest.

As I tried to explain earlier, it's not about whether the existence of gods can or can't be proven, it is about the 100% lack of belief in gods. That is how, perhaps incorrectly, I define atheism...the 100% lack of belief in gods. Now if I then say that I am going to believe that gods could exist, do I have a 100% lack of belief in gods?

I think you can still hold that belief, but allow for the very slim chance that you could be wrong.

This is getting complicated!!

So, put yourself at number 7 on the scale of theism/atheism...Does it really matter?

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Of course FSM (and IPUs) exist...the Atheists "invented" them so they would have some "Gods" to recognize.

I guess they didn't want to miss out on all the "fun".

I don't know about Gods that were whipped up within the last 10 years creating the Universe though. That wouldn't figure.

I also don't think FSM Bob Henderson has been too successful at getting the Pastafarians to tithe very reliably.

BTW...you can send the Mermaids to me...they are always "super hotties"...and that's my main field of expertise.

I must warn you, mermaids are rather smelly, and very hard to hold on to.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by Maia160

Most people use those terms in the manner you listed. In fact, up until a year ago I used them in that manner. However, gnosticism and theism have different meanings. Gnosticism addresses what you know and agnosticism addresses what you don't know. Theism addresses what you believe and atheism addresses what you don't believe. So, there are 4 categories:

Gnostic Theist: Knows there is a god and believes there is a god.

Agnostic Theist: Doesn't know if is a god but believes there is a god.

Gnostic Atheist: Knows there isn't a god and believes there isn't a god.

Agnostic Atheist: Doesn't know if there is a god but doesn't believe in a god.

Most of us don't fall exactly on one of these strict definitions. We all fall along a continum. As Sanspeur mentioned, Richard Dawkins attempted to define this continum.

I see. Now I'm hip to the concept. It adds another "dimension".

Thanks for that Maia...something further for me to contemplate.

If I could only get the Hottie Mermaids out of my mind.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

I must warn you, mermaids are rather smelly, and very hard to hold on to.

Aw man!...you just messed up my cool fantasy trip! LOL!

I suppose I had that coming. Ya got me sans. Good one!