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Old 09-13-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,515,219 times
Reputation: 11134

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
The biggest thing that comes to mind when people ask for respect for religious beliefs is the whole mess than happened last year here during the holidays. Certain Christians got upset that people weren't respecting (i.e. unquestioningly accepting) their religion and started an effort to enforce that respect through moderation. It was pretty ridiculous - people were debating whether certain abbreviations were just a time-saver or a veiled insult, and we also learned that insults were fine as long as you copied them from a list of approved books.

Guess what majority religious tradition those books are part of?

Of course, this call for respect didn't extend to anything other than the Christian view. Referring to G-d using his full name, which is offensive to some Jews, is allowed. The implication is pretty clear what the rules were intended to do.

Luckily sanity and reality prevailed, but the obvious conclusion was that a certain group was using the respect angle as a way to limit discussion. This is hardly the first time I've seen this kind of behavior, too. I'm always skeptical that calls to be non-offensive are more than just a call for common courtesy - especially from people belonging to a group with a 2000+ year tradition of institutionalized persecution complexes. More extreme members of that group are pretty good at getting offended, especially when it helps further their goals. That doesn't mean we need to change to stop saying things which are offensive to people who go out of their way to be offended.

This isn't me excusing actual insults. Honestly, I don't see too much of that here. Genuine name calling is typically handled pretty swiftly. And I'm not implying the OP has any sort of hidden agenda (I honestly don't remember if they were around for the fun last year). I'm just trying to give a background as to why many experienced posters here don't seem to be all that moved by a call for unconditional respect of everyone's beliefs. It isn't a lack of respect, it's a lack of wanting to turn this into a nerf padded romper room instead of a discussion forum.
I'm very new to the religious forum and while a member of CD for well over a year....this forum is novel to me. My main beef is with the anti-gay slurs I read; DO NOT misinterpret my "niceness" as weakness; as some posters are doing.....I am capable of being vile, caustic and....well let's just say the Marquis de Sad would beg for mercy. As for Romper Room....that's part of the problem I'm trying to address...it's fine to jest and use humor to make one's point( I often do this); however school yard tactics should be beneath educated adults.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:20 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,501,132 times
Reputation: 1775
I don't think really bad ideas should be inoculated from criticism simply because the idea calls itself a "religion."

Otherwise smart people get really offended when you treat their religious beliefs with the same callous disregard traditionally found in the market place of ideas. None the less, I won't pretend religious ideas are worthy of respect just so others wont get offended, because if I do I'll give them legitimacy and prevent them from dying out.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,175,776 times
Reputation: 5219
I don't think of it as 'giving them legitimacy'. If I think the person is worthy of respect in general, and they hold religious views which are moderate enough to allow them to respect my atheism, I don't feel it necessary to attack them.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,515,219 times
Reputation: 11134
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
I don't think of it as 'giving them legitimacy'. If I think the person is worthy of respect in general, and they hold religious views which are moderate enough to allow them to respect my atheism, I don't feel it necessary to attack them.

I agree....while I may find many beliefs absolutely ridiculous....I feel I still should attempt to respect them; otherwise I cannot expect those same people to respect my beliefs...which though logical...LOL....may not seem so obvious to them.

Let me add that though all of us are "firm" in our beliefs...we would all be fools to think that ANY one of us has all the correct answers.....a wise man keeps his heart and mind open to others..

Also I do know many religious folks who believe in Evolution....do not take the Bible literally......and are in favor of equal rights for gay people etc....I'd be a fool to alienate them from my way of thinking and my "camp"(no pun intended...LOL). I need their votes(parade music plays).

PS...the emoticons go a long way to avoid one's posts from being misunderstood.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,850,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
...but I realize now that Gld was being facetious ....
I wouldn't put money on that.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,501,132 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
I agree....while I may find many beliefs absolutely ridiculous....I feel I still should attempt to respect them; otherwise I cannot expect those same people to respect my beliefs...which though logical...LOL....may not seem so obvious to them.

Let me add that though all of us are "firm" in our beliefs...we would all be fools to think that ANY one of us has all the correct answers.....a wise man keeps his heart and mind open to others..

Also I do know many religious folks who believe in Evolution....do not take the Bible literally......and are in favor of equal rights for gay people etc....I'd be a fool to alienate them from my way of thinking and my "camp"(no pun intended...LOL). I need their votes(parade music plays).

PS...the emoticons go a long way to avoid one's posts from being misunderstood.
I don't expect anyone to respect my beliefs simply because I happen to believe them.

I only expect them to respect my beliefs if they find they have merit.


That's true for ALL of my beliefs, not just my religious ones. And that is pretty much how I treat the beliefs of others.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:42 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,646,703 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I wouldn't put money on that.
Oh, Raf...of course you could.

You know when I'm serious...and you know when I'm joking...you just PRETEND not to so you can bluster and spout.

But it's cool...if it brings out your "best vintage snark", like the picture of that kid...it's all worth it. I'm still cracking up over that...the expression...the black-and-white motif...the comment. Some of your best snark EVER.

OTOH...you failed to give me credit for the inspiration.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:30 AM
 
174 posts, read 372,796 times
Reputation: 120
I apologise for not having read all this thread - which is very long - but my own impression is that both the religious and anti-religious posters who get involved in arguments on the web generally have in common a way-out fundamentalist view on Christianity. I was brought up in the Church in Wales (Episcopalian) myself, and I'll swear nobody even suggested we should begin to think of 'believing' some of the nonsense they argue about. I find the God concept a bit much to take now, but I have a deep liking and respect for those who can still feel otherwise, and cannot imagine taking part in all this public screaming and yelling and abuse. It doesn't seem to be the way to establish anything really.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,515,219 times
Reputation: 11134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
I apologise for not having read all this thread - which is very long - but my own impression is that both the religious and anti-religious posters who get involved in arguments on the web generally have in common a way-out fundamentalist view on Christianity. I was brought up in the Church in Wales (Episcopalian) myself, and I'll swear nobody even suggested we should begin to think of 'believing' some of the nonsense they argue about. I find the God concept a bit much to take now, but I have a deep liking and respect for those who can still feel otherwise, and cannot imagine taking part in all this public screaming and yelling and abuse. It doesn't seem to be the way to establish anything really.
Exactly....I simply respect their right to say/state their beliefs...this does NOT mean I agree or respect the belief itself. However as you allude to.....establishing a dialogue does not involve "screaming and ranting" or denegrading statements.....which one can "feel" in all of our posts sometimes.....this is simply what I'm trying to say.....Obviously we will all never agree....it would be a boring world if we did all agree or think the same....this helps propel our species forward by evolving and merging our thoughts/knowledge and belief systems.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,850,754 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
I was brought up in the Church in Wales ...
Hello boyo! I'm Welsh too. Cymru Am Byth
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