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Old 09-16-2010, 05:53 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,716,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perwil3356 View Post
There would be more respect if we all were in the same physical room eyeball to eyeball instead of C-D FORUM where we can hide behind a username.
If there's one thing I've learned living in the south, it's don't confuse polite behavior with respect.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:52 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,504,185 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Unlike the irreligious who talk about Spaghetti Monsters, obsess on Jesus going to the latrine, never take responsibility for things people like you do wrong, believe Youtube videos justify broad-brush generalizations about billions of people, etc.

Obviously most irreligious are not like any of those, but some fit that to a tee. A certain portion of every group acts like children. The irreligious might be less likely to act like five-year-olds, but acting like one of the more obnoxious eleven-year-old is not as much of an improvement as you might believe.
Would you agree that religions other than your own are mostly irrational? Hinduism, for example. Is that a rational or irrational belief system?
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:07 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,651,631 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Moderator cut: orphaned
This comment ^^^ by "Charles"...is a "posterchild" of the core problem.

As long as you get the minority that is outnumbered 9or10 to 1...telling the vast majority of the rest of the population of the world...that they are, "essentially brainwashed, superstitious, and delusional...and mentally ill"...you will NEVER find any "common ground".

Moderator cut: deleted/orphaned
So...if you keep it up...it's a given where it's going to get you---The same place it ALWAYS has. Whether the "penalty" fits the "crime" is debateable...I personally don't think it does...but that is never-the-less the reality. Proven time and time again throughout human history. And it doesn't matter what "side" you are on...Look what the majority did to Jesus and his crew, for calling them "serpents" and "sons of vipers". And it's not even about "religion"...the vastly more powerful majority, never takes too much of what they consider disrespect and insults from the minority for long...before they "do something about it". That's just the way the world/people has always functioned--I wish it wasn't...but it is.

Last edited by june 7th; 09-17-2010 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,525,635 times
Reputation: 11134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Good luck respecting...
"Respecting" the belief that gays should be stone to death.
"Respecting" the belief that a man should be allow to beat his wife.
"Respecting" any beliefs that try to take away eqaulity.
"Respecting" any beliefs that say a group of people should be slaughter.
"Respecting" racist, sexists and bigoted beliefs.

Beliefs do not deserve respect, because they are beliefs.
LOL.....I said I myself do not respect the beliefs...my point...respect the right to state one's beliefs...no matter how stupid or ridiculous....I'm gay myself so I got dibs on your first line.....I just consider the source and ignore them.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,525,635 times
Reputation: 11134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
I wonder how many posters read the OP and immediately thought, "Yeah! The *other side* needs to learn some respect!"
TOUCHE'........hit the nail on the head!...ROFLMFAO .
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,525,635 times
Reputation: 11134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
One reason is because posters appreciate other posters with open minds. Religious people are essentially brainwashed, superstitious, and delusional, and these are forms of mental illness.

Ask a religious person if he is open minded and of course he'll reply "yes". Then ask him if it is possible god doesn't exist. Guess what he'll reply?
I understand what you mean and I somewhat agree...Though I do NOT believe in the Biblical God at all......I am not so foolish and closed minded to say I postively know for sure "he" does not exist. But I too am firm in my beliefs and stand by them without reservation.

I pride myself in Science and we never discount something we cannot prove OR disprove.....I do try to keep my mind open.....although I too think organized Religion causes far more grief/problems in our world than it aleviates or ameliorates. Just a nicer way to put it than you did.
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:55 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
I understand what you mean and I somewhat agree...Though I do NOT believe in the Biblical God at all......I am not so foolish and closed minded to say I postively know for sure "he" does not exist. But I too am firm in my beliefs and stand by them without reservation.
Right on. Just slide the logical propshafts underneath. No -one can say that 'he', 'she' or 'It' or 'them' exists. But there is no good evidence to support any of them as even a reasonable possibility. So disbelief is not only logically justified, it is logically the only option.

Quote:
I pride myself in Science and we never discount something we cannot prove OR disprove.....I do try to keep my mind open.....although I too think organized Religion causes far more grief/problems in our world than it aleviates or ameliorates. Just a nicer way to put it than you did.
We can have open minds but open - mindedness does not mean believing stuff without good reason. Not to mention believing some stuff but not other stuff which is equally unsupported. That is not being open - minded, but gullible.

Yep. No harm in urging people to look at the vid on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

The thing about religion is not that it has caused a lot of grief. Atheism is a bit of a glass house here as Thom R will point out. The point is that logically and evidentially, atheism is corect and religious belief is not. Simple.

Open - mindedness here is not the question. Religions are so skimpy on any sound support that there is no way back for them. The Bible claims for God and Jesus are so lacking in any good support that there is no way that some new evidence is going to change our open minds any more than some new discovery is going to prove that the earth is really the centre of the solar system or that Guderian won the Battle of Gettysburg with a panzer division. It really is now a dead issue asking what would convince us. It's long past that.
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:14 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,558,648 times
Reputation: 6790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Would you agree that religions other than your own are mostly irrational? Hinduism, for example.
No, why would I agree to that?

As I understand it the other religions are generally attempts humans make, through reason or popular wisdom or shared experience or whatever, to make some kind of working ethic or meaning to their lives. It's basically like how atheists, well the most tolerant of atheists, see religion in general. As a reflection of human psychology and need or at least of the psychology and need of a specific society in a specific place or time. (Granted atheists here usually seem to prefer views far more insulting than that.)

They are inferior in that they are artificial human creations. I guess if you want Biblical they are people wandering around "in the dark" without "The Light" of things revealed by God. Still some blind people manage fine and I think some non-Christian religions are pretty good. As are some atheists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Is that a rational or irrational belief system?
Well first I guess I should disabuse you of this idea that I think "rational" is the only or even best way to judge a belief system. Maybe you believe that, but I don't. Reason is important, but it's just one component. I certainly think that you can have a basically logical, rational, and empirical belief that's bad. I mean look at Peter Singer.

Unspeakable Conversations - NYTimes.com

I think his views are quite rational and evil. I think it could be rational to select the life of a river dolphin over that of a disabled child, if the choice was presented, as both are likely sentient while one is rarer and arguably more useful. It doesn't mean that's what I'd do at all.

Still is Hinduism a good belief system? In some things and in others not. Is it rational? It depends. The word "Hinduism" encompasses a variety of schools of thought and I think there are even variations on how they view God or the Gods. In some ways Hinduism is almost a blanket term for a variety of Hindi-religious paths that are in "communion", to some degree and borrowing a term from Christian ecumenical movements, with each other.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,329 posts, read 93,761,592 times
Reputation: 17831
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
I too am firm in my beliefs

It is unnecessary to have beliefs at all. Everything is a probability.

I "believe" in nothing. I don't believe in god. I don't believe there is no god. I express it: "There is probably a 0.01% (or so) chance a god exists. There is probably a 99.99% change god doesn't exist."

I don't believe I am alive. There is (something like) a 99.999999% chance I am alive.

Finally, sales people, policiticians, and other weasels often use "believe" to convey a point (or lie) without commiting. I generally ignore all the words of a politician speaks after the words "I believe..."

It is a meaningless set of words, like "Good Luck".
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,395 posts, read 22,525,635 times
Reputation: 11134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
It is unnecessary to have beliefs at all. Everything is a probability.

I "believe" in nothing. I don't believe in god. I don't believe there is no god. I express it: "There is probably a 0.01% (or so) chance a god exists. There is probably a 99.99% change god doesn't exist."

I don't believe I am alive. There is (something like) a 99.999999% chance I am alive.

Finally, sales people, policiticians, and other weasels often use "believe" to convey a point (or lie) without commiting. I generally ignore all the words of a politician speaks after the words "I believe..."

It is a meaningless set of words, like "Good Luck".
In the scientific Method....we are sure that our theories and models are essentially correct...like 99.999999% however that last decimal place still leaves a slight possibilty that a small portion of the model or scenario may be off; even though the approximation works for us in applying our theory to reality since our devices function as designed.

To blindly deny this is foolish...Science does not attempt to say something with 100% accuracy because there is no such thing....this is where belief comes into play. Just like You and I believe there is no biblical God....others believe there is. Surely you are aware that even Science does not get involved in this folly....it cannot prove nor disprove there is a God and stays out of the rukus.

I agree that all emperical evidence points out that there is no God....but since it is not 100% infallible , like anything, let them have their beliefs...I don't agree with them either and as I have said many times I think religion does far more harm than good; but do you want to be as stubborn as some of them and not admit that none of us knows anything 100%? This is where our "faith" comes in. I have faith no biblical God exists; they have faith he does.....neither side is going to change their belief systems anytime soon.
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