Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Plus, as an added bonus, you will watch the damned suffer the pains of hell!
"and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb..." Rev. 14:10
If you're going to be where Jesus is, you will witness the burnings. Cool, huh?
The verse in question states that this event will occur before God and His holy angles, it says nothing about believers being present. So to suggest that, requires you adding something to the Scriptures that is not found there. Also, their place of final torment is Hell, and Scripture shows us, Hell is not in heaven. Jesus died on the cross so no one has to go to Hell. Everyone has a free choice to make. Please, don't blame God for your poor choice. Someday if you wake up and find that your suffering the eternal pains of Hell, it will only be because you rejected God's free gift of Salvation.
It seems very strange to me that the Bible spends so much time discussing the unimportance of wealth and material things but have any of you read Revelations 21 which describes heaven? Here's a portion of it:
Doesn't this description of unimaginable wealth seem to contradict the basic philosophy of the Bible?
There's nothing contradictory about it at all. The things of this world are temporary, and the things of heaven are forever. We are told to store up our treasures in heaven (meaning don't be concerned about things of this world and do God's work while we are here so that we have our inheritance in heaven).
Matthew 6:19
"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Matthew 6:20
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Everything here on earth is temporary. Everything will pass away. There is a story in the Bible of a rich man who was told by Jesus to sell everything he owned if he wanted to follow Jesus.....the man could not do it. His possessions and money were so important to him that he couldn't even see that he gave up the most prized treasure of all. Jesus was right in front of him!!!!!
This is a fine example of where faith comes in. We don't have the pleasure of seeing Jesus face to face like this man did, yet he still couldn't give up his stuff!! I would do it in a second based solely on God's word and faith, but most people are like the rich man and don't understand what they are actually giving up. How sad.
It seems very strange to me that the Bible spends so much time discussing the unimportance of wealth and material things but have any of you read Revelations 21 which describes heaven? Here's a portion of it:
Doesn't this description of unimaginable wealth seem to contradict the basic philosophy of the Bible?
Nothing in the bible is a contradiction. If it does seem like there's a contradiction it's because of your lack of understanding of the scriptures. The bible doesn't shun wealth God doesn't want his followers poor, but if it takes Him allowing to be so to bring you to Him then He will do so. Jesus says "Do not lay up for yourselves treasure on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moths nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and destroy. Heaven is a magnificent place, so magnificent you yourself can not wrap your head around it and that is why you mock it. The Lord Jesus Christ did not willing give up his life for you and I so that we might not believe in HIm, but so that we will completely trust in with all our hearts and believe that He is our Lord and Savior so that we might leave forever with him in Heaven.
Please really sit down and think about life and what it means. We aren't here by accident, what would be the purpose of that? Try reading the bible as if you completely believed in it and see how you feel after that. I suggest reading Matthew or John.
It seems very strange to me that the Bible spends so much time discussing the unimportance of wealth and material things but have any of you read Revelations 21 which describes heaven? Here's a portion of it:
Doesn't this description of unimaginable wealth seem to contradict the basic philosophy of the Bible?
"Treasures and Wealth" are not money because there isn't going to be any kind of trades or bartering system of any kind. God is The Father and I know as a mother that my biggest treasure and wealth on earth is my family, so with that said, what would God want to take from the Nations but His people. We are the treasure and He finds value in His people. That is why He died for our sins because He loves and cares for us. That is why He has put so much of his time listening and answering our prayers. If He found no value in mankind, He wouldn't have even bothered to send is only begotten son to save the world by being a sacrifice.
I believe the catch is that Revelation was written as apocalyptic literature--it was never meant to be taken literally. As a result, you cannot take passages in that book and declare them to be a literal description of anything. (That's not to say people don't do it. Of course they do, even right here on C-D. But that doesn't mean they're right).
Rev. 21: 26 in the NKJV states it as, "And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it".
This means, as I have read the interpretations, that we, His people, will bring the glory that He gave to us into His place that He has prepared for us. We will give back the glory and honor to Him in gratitude for having prepared a place for us.
Revelation is a difficult book to read being that it is written from the viewpoint of someone 2,000 years ago who had a vision. I wonder sometimes what it would be like for someone of our time and age to have the same vision and interpret it in our present day language.
Humans are the treasure/Glory/honourable people..of the nations God wants sinless!...now that would be the Glory of the nations, If they ever get it right....
Sinless Children are the gold God wants...etc/...and so we must become like Children, and be sinless in order to enter the gates.
That is what Jesus says....as we all know...those who do the will of the father shall enter... the Paradise.,,through the gates of righteousness .
People seem to enjoy the materialistic value of heaven which goes against the grain of working toward having more possessions. I think there is much symbolic meaning, for example pearls are noted as wisdom. Mansions are built within but no way to describe it other than to use physical material things to describe it. As I've heard it each person has understandings which are indeed golden and to enter in the gate is really a place in the heart. And as always the temple is within. So the vision was vision of looking within his own heart and seeing what the heart looks like from his minds point of view. It was a rather personal vision of his own heart and not for everyone.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
has anything changed..?
