Satan Was always An Evil Spirit in Heaven -And Still Is (Jehovah's Witnesses, disciples)

[eehtaht]

Originally Posted by eehtaht

Do not underestimate the extent of believing in something that is not true in the name of worship. The Bible tells what will happen to this empire referred to as Babylon the Great(world empire of fall religion). It is misleading the whole inhabited earth. Revelation 14:8 quotes- "She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the anger of her fornication!" The Bible warns to get out of her. Many false religions teach that God created Satan. Well, that is calling God a wicked God. They say it's all meant to be. That is blasphemy! That's like someone planning to have a child knowing one day that they are going to kill that child. No one in their right minds would do that. Jehovah is a loving God. He is our Creator. He did not put us on this earth to destroy us. Yes, he has the ability to see the future(if he chooses). However, he did not choose to see it in the case of the first human couple. They were perfect. Adam was no dummy. He knew very well snakes couldn't talk. He named all the animals, studied them carefully. He was the first scientist. Once again Adam was not deceived! He wanted to keep Eve at all cost! He defied his Creator in doing so. He basically rolled with his woman instead God. Most of the weight falls on Adam rather Eve. Jehovah chose to see the fall of Babylon for example. And their demise happened just as it was foretold. You must get to know what God requires of you. You can't decide for yourself what is right and wrong and come out victorious/unscathed. Just look at the world spiraling more and more out of control. When people reject God's rule and defy him for man's rule, that is the consequence. We know that Jehovah's anger is fast approaching. We know he is with those who are with him. We know there won't be a World War 3. Why? Because it will kill us all. These kingdoms are likened to as wild beasts. Their might is in their military power. And we know that Jehovah steps in when his purpose is interfered with. His will never went out the window when Adam and Eve sinned. His will being to have a paradise earth. The world is in pangs of distress.- ( Matthew 24:8) These things must take place before the conclusion of this system of things. Just as in the case of a woman who gives birth. Before the birth of a beautiful baby-there is much pain and distress.

*I meant to say world empire of false religion.

How can you choose a good religion?

"You must not associate with those who call themselves believers in Christ but who sin sexually, or are greedy, or worship idols, or abuse others with words, or get drunk, or cheat people. Do not even eat with people like that."- 1 Corinthians 5:11

What should happen to those who claim to be Christians but who are unrepentant sinners? "Expel the wicked man from among you," states God's word.- 1 Corinthians 5:13

Does your religion remove from its membership roll any who unrepentantly ignore Bible standards?

Good religion promotes high moral standards.

[look3467]

Good religion promotes high moral standards.>>>eehtaht

Good religion? Good religion only promotes self righteousness.

Case in point: Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You see, righteousness is a God thing, not a man thing. No man can be the righteousness of God except for God Himself.

Therefore, any attempt of any religious belief to demand the adherence to the law, or doctrine, or practice as righteous requirement is a hypocrite.

Why? Because good judgment by faith and mercy is what God seeks, for in that the righteousness of God dwells.

Did not Jesus exercise good judgment by fulfilling the totality of the law, as a man and as God, as Gods righteouness by faith and mercy?

Did He not forgive the adulterous women, did He not heal the centurions servant, did He not eat and drink with sinners, did He not talk kindly to the women at the well, did He not enlist Matthew the scrupulous tax collector as one of His apostles.

Now if Jesus were a religious person, He would have to have made judgments based on the letter of the law, rather than on mercy, and would have not changed anything, and therefore have no need for His being offered up on the cross.

So, our faith in God's Jesus, a man of God's righteousness allows us to deal justly in mercy and not in condemnations because some may refuse to believe.

As a matter of fact, God has concluded all in unbelief, by which He would demonstrate His mercy upon all.

Now, if your belief tells you to stay away from sinners as in; quoting you:

"You must not associate with those who call themselves believers in Christ but who sin sexually, or are greedy, or worship idols, or abuse others with words, or get drunk, or cheat people. Do not even eat with people like that."- 1 Corinthians 5:11

Then you must comply,because faith of the mercy of God has not yet taken hold.

You see, God's Mercy towards sinners is unfathomable to believers and worse yet to unbelievers.

The question is "How can a God of love love both believers and unbelievers alike without so much as an ounce of righteousness from us all?

How can God tell us to love our enemies if our enemies were not included as His?

How can God say quote: Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

And why would God say :1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


We have a problem here of understanding as to who our brother is, is our brother a blood type, one who is of the same religious belief, or is it our enemies of whom Christ also died and paid the price for?

You see where I am going ?

Instead of condemning, we ought to promote the love and mercy of God by our own actions.

But if we are not strong in the faith, to understand God's mercy, then by all means, continue as a child until that time when understanding is granted from above.

Now, Satan is just the adversary of which without him, we could effect absolutely nothing towards the good, meaning we could not be tested so that good would be born in us in the midst of our trials and tribulations.

The true character of God was born in the midst of hell, as you know what Jesus went through on the way to the cross.

It was the trial and tribulation of Jesus employing the character of God in the midst of suffering, taking on the penality of eternal separation (Death) from us, and in return, gifting us with life.

If you must fear anything, fear what this worlds lust can do to us, for in that, you will find the adversary (Satan) and of which only in Jesus can we overcome.

Hence this verse explaining the victory we have in Jesus: 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

So, Satan (Adversary) I have nothing to fear, for Satan is only an adversary of which I can overcome in Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

[tgnostic]

There is a doomsday clock and there was also the debt increasing clock. The tandom of idolatry in the western world. What are the muslims in Egypt really demonstrating against? Not ideology, not miserable working conditions. No; just the corruption of the business's giving into industrial sustenance.

[look3467]

Originally Posted by tgnostic

There is a doomsday clock and there was also the debt increasing clock. The tandom of idolatry in the western world. What are the muslims in Egypt really demonstrating against? Not ideology, not miserable working conditions. No; just the corruption of the business's giving into industrial sustenance.

"doomsday clock" has ticked in many nations prior to today's clock, as we study of the rise and fall of nations.

Yes, corruption is the major factor in the course of humanity.

Since we are made after the image of God, placed in an environment conducive to lusts, we are apt to follow the way of greed, regardless of ideology.

If, we do not take hold of Godly principles and apply them, we are doomed to this worlds mercy, and we all know that this world has none.

Blessings, AJ

[Jason28]

No such thing as Satan unless you're delusional. Oh and the funniest thing I've ever heard is the ol' saying of "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist". Something that does not exist cannot be proven to not exist in the first place. You can't prove a negative. Prove that I can't fly. May as well say the greatest trick in the world the flying spaghetti monster ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist. Prove to me that he doesn't exist. You can't. It's a circular, illogical, and insane thought pattern.

[TheUnknown67]

Originally Posted by Fred314X

Let's say for the moment that every one of your assertions is absolutely correct. Right on target. A bullseye, etc. My question to you is, what is anyone supposed to do about Satan? You present all this evidence, but you don't give any clue as to why it would mean anything. It's not going to change the order of things, is it?

Good question

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

Aren't you a Jew? -Do you know about the lessons in the Oracles of the Gold Mercy Seat, and the gold covered Ark of the Covenant?

For a Believer, understanding is a gift, with knowledge, in the Word, of how to wage the warfare we are in against the enemy of our own soul -and the enemy of the souls of every person born in Adam- who will try us [only with permission] to see if there is a weakness in our armor so as to gain entry [Genesis 4:7 -"Sin" in that verse of warning to Cain is a "Satan"], and have dominion over us, which is his purpose for creation. He earns his eternal food for the Lake of Fire [his kingdom] by doing what he was created to do, to be the adversary who tests men and angels, so as to get the "chaff" as his food [Psalm 37]
Believe God's Word, and live eternaly blessed. Believe the Liar, and exist eternally damned, as a worm in the dominion of darkness.


If we are a believer, Satan can get permission to test/try us, but then we have Jesus praying for us, when that test/trial happens, so that we are strengthened, and can then strengthen our brethren.

Satan however, got challenged to test Job, and Job got tested the most of any righteous human being who was ever born in Adam, and Job did not fail nor sin with his mouth, and he glorified God -and Job received back double the blessings of everything Satan took from him [with God's permission], in his long trial.
Job knew the test was from God, even though Satan was the medium doing the testing:
Job 23:10 But he knoweth the way that I take: [when] he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.

Job 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. Job 1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.


Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses. Job 42:13 He had also seven [more] sons and three [more] daughters.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you].
2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

All heaven is watching when a servant of the LORD is allowed to go through testings from the satans, but the rewards are glorious for those who are set, as in an arena, with the host of heaven watching to see the glory they will give God and therefore earn, for their own eternal reward.


1Cor 4:5
NIV
For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men.

So, lets see if I understand you correctly

Your god got bored one day and decided to rig a game of cosmic chess which we are all forced to play without our will and consent, with the outcome cast in stone, long before it even began.

So what are we supposed to do about it, nothing I suppose, except become resigned to our fates, after all it's not as if anything can be changed now, can it?

[look3467]

Originally Posted by Jason28

No such thing as Satan unless you're delusional. Oh and the funniest thing I've ever heard is the ol' saying of "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist". Something that does not exist cannot be proven to not exist in the first place. You can't prove a negative. Prove that I can't fly. May as well say the greatest trick in the world the flying spaghetti monster ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist. Prove to me that he doesn't exist. You can't. It's a circular, illogical, and insane thought pattern.

"Something that does not exist cannot be proven to not exist in the first place"

Why not just say, "Something that does not exist cannot be proven" period?

But I say to you, what I do understand to be Satan is all that is in adverse to what I am.

Anything in adverse to "I am" is Satan.

Ref:Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

What was in adverse to "I am that I am"?

Ref: Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

The word or letter that is in adverse to "I am that I am" is I!

I = self, independent of, a separate entity from God the " I am that I am" and besides me: there is no other.

Everything "I" is against God in that all the lusts of the world are at our door step.

Ref:Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

The "I" is that which ..."shalt rule over him"...

You see, the world was offered to Jesus if only He would bow down to it, but Jesus would have nothing to do with it, for He was not of this world but of the spiritual world and one of in which this world had no hold on Him.

The world then was the adversary (the devil, Satan) to Jesus, for Jesus said about him: Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

So, whether one wants to make the devil out to be a spiritual ghost, Satan or the world, the fact remains, that if we don't do well, sin lieth at our door.

So what does ""doest well" mean? How do we interpret "doest well"?

If one does not doest..............well, then sin lieth at the door.

Doest then is the key.

What must we do (doest) then?

Do what God wants us to do period.

What is that? Two things: love God and thy neighbor as thy self.

Can you do that? If you can, thou "doest" well!

Blessings, AJ

[Visvaldis]

Hilarious thread!
All the references to Satan come from the bible. No one can provide anything that Satan has done or said from any other sources, least of all, any work by Satan himself.

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

Hilarious thread!
All the references to Satan come from the bible. No one can provide anything that Satan has done or said from any other sources, least of all, any work by Satan himself.

You can't, and I can't. But I bet YSM can "prove" whatever she darn well wants to prove, and call both of us ignorant in the process. (She's not limited to the Bible, as I'm sure you well know).

[Ilene Wright]

All I know is that Satan is real, and he lives in certain people. I've experienced evil first hand and it's very scary. It will scare the pants right off the most staunch fundamentalist, good thing I was drinking at the time.