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Oh I don't...something about those books being their book from their culture and originally written in their language, so it would stand to reason that their interpretation carries more weight than that of a Christian. But Christian arrogance will always fail to see that.
Really? -You are misinformed about who gets understanding and who gets blinded. And the "language" was dead until it was revived in the 20th century, and "Christians" who study the ancient Hebrew [which is not the same as the modern Hebrew] know the Bible language and culture and customs as well as and sometimes better than the blind who presume to know what the ancients meant, while not even having access to all the ancient books.
To get understanding of what the ancient Jews did believe, read the Dead Sea Scroll manuscript collection, including the Book of Jubilees, a totally legalistic "Jewish" writing, which teaches that the satans are evil spirits made for the Lake of Fire -just like Enoch wrote. Now the ancient Jews who were the royal priesthood heirs who left the Dead Sea Scroll manuscript collection in the caves of Qumran believed Enoch was sacred writing, and studied it as true revelation from the LORD.
-For the other Jews, who departed from the understanding of the doctrine of the Torah, well, the LORD has sent them blindness, until the ordained time of their return to Him.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. Isa 29:11 ¶ And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed: Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Isa 29:13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, [even] a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise [men] shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent [men] shall be hid.
The satans tempted the watchers who fell, as the Scripture studied by the ancient Jews [the writings of Enoch] teach. A satan tempted Eve, states the same Scripture.
The satans come before the throne to slander and accuse the angels and the sons of Adam. They do not always get access there, but at the times of the calling of assemblies of sons of God in the heavenlies they are there to make accusations.
They get to tempt and test/try, by permission only, the ones they accuse before the throne. That is what they were made to do, and those angels who fall have no remission, and the sons of Adam who fall into temptation and who do not repent are their lawful prey to "eat off of forever" in Satan's dominion of darkness, the Lake of Fire.
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3And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits.
6And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7And I heard the fourth voice fending off the satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth.
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
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54 And I looked and turned to another part of the earth, and saw there a deep valley with burning fire. 2And they brought the kings and the mighty, and began to cast them into this deep valley. 3And there mine eyes saw how they made these their instruments, iron chains of immeasurable weight. 4And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: "For whom are these chains being prepared?"
5And he said unto me: "These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.
And the day arrived when the sons of God came and placed themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with the sons of God before the Lord. 47
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? and Satan answered the Lord and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 48
And the Lord said to Satan, What is thy word to me concerning all the children of the earth? and Satan answered the Lord and said, I have seen all the children of the earth who serve thee and remember thee when they require anything from thee. 49
And when thou givest them the thing which they require from thee, they sit at their ease, and forsake thee and they remember thee no more. 50
Hast thou seen Abraham the son of Terah, who at first had no children, and he served thee and erected altars to thee wherever he came, and he brought up offerings upon them, and he proclaimed thy name continually to all the children of the earth. 51
And now that his son Isaac is born to him, he has forsaken thee, he has made a great feast for all the inhabitants of the land, and the Lord he has forgotten. 52
For amidst all that he has done he brought thee no offering; neither burnt offering nor peace offering, neither ox, lamb nor goat of all that he killed on the day that his son was weaned. 53
Even from the time of his son's birth till now, being thirty-seven years, he built no altar before thee, nor brought any offering to thee, for he saw that thou didst give what he requested before thee, and he therefore forsook thee. 54
And the Lord said to Satan, Hast thou thus considered my servant Abraham? for there is none like him upon earth, a perfect and an upright man before me, one that feareth God and avoideth evil; as I live, were I to say unto him, Bring up Isaac thy son before me, he would not withhold him from me, much more if I told him to bring up a burnt offering before me from his flock or herds. 55
And Satan answered the Lord and said, Speak then now unto Abraham as thou hast said, and thou wilt see whether he will not this day transgress and cast aside thy words.
Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 12-01-2010 at 10:36 PM..
What I've always wondered is why would God create evil at all? What with him being all powerful why not just make everything puppy dogs and rainbows? Why create Angels/spirits that become evil? Why create man with the capacity for evil? And I know you'll say it's a test of faith and spirit. But why didn't God just create a perfect universe? Does he just not have it in him? Is he just bored and playing a game? He plops us down here and says "LOOK AT THE PARADISE I'VE MADE FOR YOU MY CHILDREN. YOU NOW HAVE FREE WILL.....O' BY THE WAY SOME OF MY HELPERS UP HERE TICKED ME OFF SO I'VE DECIDE THEY ARE NOW GOING MAKE THINGS DOWN THERE AS BAD FOR YOU AS THEY CAN...SORRY MY BAD. I'LL MAKE IT UP TO YOU WHEN YOU DIE."
All I can say is the God's business model needs some work. Maybe he could audition for The Apprentice next season. "God, your fired!"
What I've always wondered is why would God create evil at all? What with him being all powerful why not just make everything puppy dogs and rainbows? Why create Angels/spirits that become evil? Why create man with the capacity for evil? And I know you'll say it's a test of faith and spirit. But why didn't God just create a perfect universe? Does he just not have it in him? Is he just bored and playing a game? He plops us down here and says "LOOK AT THE PARADISE I'VE MADE FOR YOU MY CHILDREN. YOU NOW HAVE FREE WILL.....O' BY THE WAY SOME OF MY HELPERS UP HERE TICKED ME OFF SO I'VE DECIDE THEY ARE NOW GOING MAKE THINGS DOWN THERE AS BAD FOR YOU AS THEY CAN...SORRY MY BAD. I'LL MAKE IT UP TO YOU WHEN YOU DIE."
All I can say is the God's business model needs some work. Maybe he could audition for The Apprentice next season. "God, your fired!"
You err on how it is with God the Creator. No "helpers" ticked God off. Satan was never a holy angel, but an angel of destruction, an evil spirit, and all his unholy angels/messengers were made to serve under him and they all get their lawful spoils of war. -Anyone wanting to escape the clutches of the Satanic kingdom and dominion of it over their lives for now and for eternity can be set free by calling on the name of the LORD Jesus Christ, who died to free the captives from the "strongman", who holds them legally, as his spoils, by their letting "sin" enter in, instead of "mastering/ruling over, sin. Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Everyone God created must be tested for His Kingdom. No one is excluded, neither holy angels nor the human being creation.
He needed to create evil so that the holy angels and human being creation could be purified for His eternal kingdom.
The reward the evil gets is the Lake of Fire dominion, where all they can take prey before the end of this present creation become their spoils forever.
Everyone God created must be tested for His Kingdom. No one is excluded, neither holy angels nor the human being creation.
He needed to create evil so that the holy angels and human being creation could be purified for His eternal kingdom.
The reward the evil gets is the Lake of Fire dominion, where all they can take prey before the end of this present creation become their spoils forever.
But why does he not just create beings that don't require purification?
Why purposefully make something broken and then have to fix it?
Does God work for General Motors?
Contrary to what reason would tell us, yes, she does...and worse.
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Originally Posted by NomadScribe
Will the OP even be open to open dialogue on this or just lay forth their firm unyielding words and move on?
What good is a forum when you just recite what you believe is truth and tune out everything else? I for one, do not see this as particularly useful grounds to use as a preaching mechanism.
Fortunately, Random Factors gave us the wit to see where a useful and interesting discussion is likely and where it is better just to mutter, 'Whatever...' and browse another thread.
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