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The true is that religions by themselves are useless.
What is real is the message of true of Jesus Christ. If you can find Jesus, you will find that meaning that you are looking for. The first step, is to call upon him, sincerely. Start seeking for the real true and you will find it. He will fill your heart with joy and peace. He did it with me.
The true is that religions by themselves are useless.
What is real is the message of true of Jesus Christ. If you can find Jesus, you will find that meaning that you are looking for. The first step, is to call upon him, sincerely. Start seeking for the real true and you will find it. He will fill your heart with joy and peace. He did it with me.
That same peace and joy can be found without Jesus.... Spiritual wholeness can be found for those who look and it may be in a place other then Christianity.
First, let me say that It's not that I'm not being childish. From my point of view, the existence of a leprechaun is as unlikely as the existence of a God, and for exactly the same reason. In order for either magical creature to exist, they would violate several known laws of nature.
But let me get right to where my disagreement is with your post.
Atheist do not disagree that there is a universe. We disagree that there is a distinct sapient personality with an independent will that we refer to as "God." I understand that you may have a wider or different definition of God, and without knowing what that definition is, I can't say whether I believe in it or not. For example, is your God a "being" with an independent will?
Also, when you describe a "Creator" do you mean as a distinct sapient personality with an independent will? Because I may or may not agree that there is such a thing as a "creator" depending on what you mean by the word.
Again, I am an Atheist by the standard definition of the word "God." When we atheist use the word God, we use it in the most normal sense of the word.
That could also be the attributes of a godless universe, by the common definitions of the words. So its a little like describing the basic attributes of a unicorn by describing a tail and four legs, and leaving out any mention of a magic horn.
The first big question is, is your God a distinct being with a will? That is one thing that would distinguish it from a universe, under the common meanings of the words.
As long as you stay hung up on your "normal definition of what God is"...ie: the "Bearded Guy in the Sky", floating around, arms stretched out in front of Him, waggling His fingers...first considering, then controlling and compelling everything that happens...you will never be able to contemplate "GOD". You gotta lose...the "beliefs about" God...BibleGod versions of God...and any other man-made God entity---and consider "GOD".
You are sooooooo mired down in "God's traditionally ascribed attributes"...that, no doubt, you have gleaned from the standard "religious books and writings"...that you're "stuck" and unable to move away from that and open your mind up to a true search for TRUTH.
You guys offer nothing...well, unless you consider, "we don't know" & "random/purposeless chance", and the like, "something".
All the while...there is the most logical, reasonable, sensible, scientifically reconciled/compatible explanation and description for/of "GOD" EVER...free from any and all "hocus pocus" taint....right here, right now, on this very board.
And you know what I'm talking about.
If you've got something better ("we don't know" isn't better)...or even an alternative (that is reasonable) explanation of "what's what"...I'd sure like to hear it.
The true is that religions by themselves are useless.
What is real is the message of true of Jesus Christ. If you can find Jesus, you will find that meaning that you are looking for. The first step, is to call upon him, sincerely. Start seeking for the real true and you will find it. He will fill your heart with joy and peace. He did it with me.
Gmanon, here's the truth: I did that. And with sincerity, you can be sure. And not just for a night or two. Or a week or two. Or a month or two. No...I asked, and asked, and asked, and asked him to come to me so I could know him.
No answer.
You can continue to believe God and Jesus exist...maybe they like to answer you, maybe they pick favorites, maybe you're crazy, maybe I'm crazy, maybe we're both wrong. But I know I have done everything I could have to get God to give me that personal relationship and I received dead silence in return. And that I've given this a go for something like 37, 38-ish years now.
It's time to give up. Even if there is a God (a Biblegod, I mean), he doesn't want me, so tough darts! I'll find my own way. Maybe not everyone is meant to have these "experiences." I'm coming to terms with this. I know I can't try yet one more thing (nor repeat something I've already tried) without feeling like an idiot and like I was about to get slapped in the face with silence again, so I doubt I have the "sincerity" this go-round.
When I started this thread, I still had that last shred of "But God...don't you want me?" in there, but over the past week or so I've had this very sincere revelation that there really, truly just isn't anybody there...and that that's okay.
Time to wave the white flag and leave God to people who feel something.
Just adding this: I wanted to truly, deeply thank every single person who answered this thread, and who PMd me with suggestions/reading suggestions, etc. I am reading the books that were suggested to me.
I appreciate that people took the time out to sincerely think about this subject and to give me their hearts in trying to find an answer.
Gmanon, here's the truth: I did that. And with sincerity, you can be sure. And not just for a night or two. Or a week or two. Or a month or two. No...I asked, and asked, and asked, and asked him to come to me so I could know him.
No answer.
You can continue to believe God and Jesus exist...maybe they like to answer you, maybe they pick favorites, maybe you're crazy, maybe I'm crazy, maybe we're both wrong. But I know I have done everything I could have to get God to give me that personal relationship and I received dead silence in return. And that I've given this a go for something like 37, 38-ish years now.
It's time to give up. Even if there is a God (a Biblegod, I mean), he doesn't want me, so tough darts! I'll find my own way. Maybe not everyone is meant to have these "experiences." I'm coming to terms with this. I know I can't try yet one more thing (nor repeat something I've already tried) without feeling like an idiot and like I was about to get slapped in the face with silence again, so I doubt I have the "sincerity" this go-round.
When I started this thread, I still had that last shred of "But God...don't you want me?" in there, but over the past week or so I've had this very sincere revelation that there really, truly just isn't anybody there...and that that's okay.
Time to wave the white flag and leave God to people who feel something.
I hope that you DO KNOW that it really is okay.
You found what "fits" with you...and there is nothing more cool than that.
Nonbelief/Atheism is a totally viable mindset and viewpoint.
As you can see by this board...you can be just as interesting, thoughtful, witty, and of good character as any...and take an Nontheist position.
If it's the concept YOU chose...and feel cool with it...then, no way can it be the wrong concept for you.
I'm happy for you JerZ. Contentment is tough to come by in this crazy world...and if you found that in this particular aspect of your life...good for you!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Gmanon, here's the truth: I did that. And with sincerity, you can be sure. And not just for a night or two. Or a week or two. Or a month or two. No...I asked, and asked, and asked, and asked him to come to me so I could know him.
No answer.
You can continue to believe God and Jesus exist...maybe they like to answer you, maybe they pick favorites, maybe you're crazy, maybe I'm crazy, maybe we're both wrong. But I know I have done everything I could have to get God to give me that personal relationship and I received dead silence in return. And that I've given this a go for something like 37, 38-ish years now.
It's time to give up. Even if there is a God (a Biblegod, I mean), he doesn't want me, so tough darts! I'll find my own way. Maybe not everyone is meant to have these "experiences." I'm coming to terms with this. I know I can't try yet one more thing (nor repeat something I've already tried) without feeling like an idiot and like I was about to get slapped in the face with silence again, so I doubt I have the "sincerity" this go-round.
When I started this thread, I still had that last shred of "But God...don't you want me?" in there, but over the past week or so I've had this very sincere revelation that there really, truly just isn't anybody there...and that that's okay.
Time to wave the white flag and leave God to people who feel something.
I accepted Christ as my Savior when I was 9 years old. I didn't know what that was. I told my mother that I knew it meant that I could go be with my grandfather when I died. That was all I knew. As a young adult I began to question, what if what they say is wrong? Many things have happened to me since that question. Too many to type out on a message forum.
The preachers would preach, "I heard the Lord say" and I would think, well good for you, cause He isn't saying squat to me. That changed. I've heard His voice 3 times all relevant to experience, that if the story is told many would dispute. Learning of synchronicity, I understood the experience is unique to me and not meant for others to understand. Now, I get that.
Your last sentence in your post struck for me in that I have a thyroid condition. When not on my supplements I will feel detached from my spirituality. I will feel, Godless...like, He isn't there any more. Stress and anxiety will flood my mind and I become much like a drowning victim in the middle of an ocean with nothing to grab onto to pull me to shore. There is also a rush of adrenaline so much so that I have gone over 3 days and nights without sleep, followed by, paranoia (of course) of any one I am in contact. It is quite scary.
How I knew the Lord was with me during my time of discovery of my body was failing my mind, was the memory of a time that I questioned the Lord (age 24) and He said to me, "Trust Me". A year later my oldest boy was born. (that in itself is not the whole story) So...I being able to recall those events that the Lord had a hand in them has been most helpful, but the feeling of being alone, still predominant for me now at age 50 and going through so many body changes, which effect my mind, which effect my spirituality.
Many go their whole life and only find one set of footprints. (Through faith, the size of a mustard seed, one can move mountains)
I hope this helps.
For myself, I don't know what to do any more. Could be I'm the blind leading the blind. I just know, this I pray each night before I fall asleep, so as I can sleep. It keeps the insomnia away.
Psalm 23
A Psalm of David.
23:1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
23:2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
23:3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
23:4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
23:5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
23:6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
As long as you stay hung up on your "normal definition of what God is"...ie: the "Bearded Guy in the Sky", floating around, arms stretched out in front of Him, waggling His fingers...first considering, then controlling and compelling everything that happens...you will never be able to contemplate "GOD". You gotta lose...the "beliefs about" God...BibleGod versions of God...and any other man-made God entity---and consider "GOD".
You are sooooooo mired down in "God's traditionally ascribed attributes"...that, no doubt, you have gleaned from the standard "religious books and writings"...that you're "stuck" and unable to move away from that and open your mind up to a true search for TRUTH.
You guys offer nothing...well, unless you consider, "we don't know" & "random/purposeless chance", and the like, "something".
All the while...there is the most logical, reasonable, sensible, scientifically reconciled/compatible explanation and description for/of "GOD" EVER...free from any and all "hocus pocus" taint....right here, right now, on this very board.
And you know what I'm talking about.
If you've got something better ("we don't know" isn't better)...or even an alternative (that is reasonable) explanation of "what's what"...I'd sure like to hear it.
When I say I am an atheist, what I mean is that I don't believe in a certain type of being commonly called God.
If you have a definition of God that is abnormal, I may or may not believe in they thing you call God, but I won't know until you go further and describe it to me.
If what you are calling God is what most people call the "universe", then I agree, that does exist.
If what you are calling God is a distinct personality, with a will and is able to violate what we consider to be laws of physics, then I disagree that kind of God exists.
Either way, we don't offer anything, because "we" aren't selling anything. It was never my agenda to offer something to people in order to get them believe what I believe. I'm simply pointing out the truth as I understand it.
Do not be sad. You can worship anything you want. What makes you feel good and gives power for you. You can make your own prayers. Part of my traditions belongs to write new "healing" poems and other poems to different life circumstances so you can chooce your way freely. It does not have to be 2000 years old prayer it is just as important prayer if it is just writed with heart.
JerZ: You are quite welcome. I am glad that you have realized that you don't have to worship anything.
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Maybe not everyone is meant to have these "experiences." I'm coming to terms with this. I know I can't try yet one more thing (nor repeat something I've already tried) without feeling like an idiot and like I was about to get slapped in the face with silence again, so I doubt I have the "sincerity" this go-round.
That changed. I've heard His voice 3 times all relevant to experience, that if the story is told many would dispute. Learning of synchronicity, I understood the experience is unique to me and not meant for others to understand. Now, I get that.
