Must We Be Baptized In Water In Order To Truly Be Saved?? (Holy Ghost, quotes)

[Hiram]

Originally Posted by blue62

I am not a bible scholar like so many on this forum are, but I do know enough about the bible and what Christ taught to know that he

.Actually, the only commandment he gave us is what some refer to as the

..People keep referring to Johm 3:3-7 as a command that water Baptism is necessary in order to be saved..These verses only tell me that Christ was speaking of two births...Born AGAIN meaning twice..Physical birth (water and blood) He says you must be born of the Spirit to enter his kingdom..In order to be born of the spirit you need to believe..Baptism is an outward sgn that you believe in the death, burial and resurrection into a new , spiritual life..

Here, the first example of a Gentile conversion we have the command of baptism.

Acts 10:47-48 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [have?"] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Below, we see the command once again. It is given to those with a circumcised heart. (*cut to the heart) You need to have change of heart to be baptized. Not a physical circumcision displayed in the OT. Also, please notice that baptism is for " the remission of sins". If anyone has not been baptized, then they are still living in sin.

Acts 2:36-38 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Now when they heard [this,] they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Baptism is synonymous with receiving the spirit. An uncircumcised heart will reject the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 [You] stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers [did,] so [do] you.


Those who "gladly" receive Gods' word will be baptized. Many today do not want to receive His word. They want a watered down God. They do not want His authority or presence in their life, thus, we have the denominational world, where "new agism" is preached, and the child of God is suppressed by such words as "legalism". Some will say we should not discuss or argue. Just leave God out of it. Guilt and fear is a strong force many will use in their tactics to gain control over the masses.

Acts:39-41 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them.]


Those who reject God are not baptized. We have that choice. Many will make an excuse and reject the will of God, and teach others this sad doctrine. The "Pharisees" were one such people.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.


Baptism takes place after one believes.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Acts 18:8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.


You put on Christ after you are baptized, not before.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.



Many today say "we just have to love Jesus". What is love? Many today do not know what the definition of love is.

This definition implies certain things that the modern Christian doesn’t want to deal with.

2 John 1:6, "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments."

[the_pines]

No I don't think being baptized in water is going to save anyone. Water is just water. Make sure you drink plenty of water if you're out in the heat though.

[Miss Blue]

Thanks Hiram..Again, I am no bible scholar and as I said I was giving my opinion as I feel I have been shown by the Holy Spirit through scripture..Just for your information I was baptized 45 years ago because "I believed " and was making an outward humble expression of that...I think I was already saved by the grace (free gift) of God and for my belief (faith) And I queitly, humbly and with love leave this thread...

[Towhee]

Originally Posted by Hiram

Here, the first example of a Gentile conversion we have the command of baptism.

Acts 10:47-48 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [have?"] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Below, we see the command once again. It is given to those with a circumcised heart. (*cut to the heart) You need to have change of heart to be baptized. Not a physical circumcision displayed in the OT. Also, please notice that baptism is for " the remission of sins". If anyone has not been baptized, then they are still living in sin.

Acts 2:36-38 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." Now when they heard [this,] they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Baptism is synonymous with receiving the spirit. An uncircumcised heart will reject the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 [You] stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers [did,] so [do] you.


Those who "gladly" receive Gods' word will be baptized. Many today do not want to receive His word. They want a watered down God. They do not want His authority or presence in their life, thus, we have the denominational world, where "new agism" is preached, and the child of God is suppressed by such words as "legalism". Some will say we should not discuss or argue. Just leave God out of it. Guilt and fear is a strong force many will use in their tactics to gain control over the masses.

Acts:39-41 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them.]


Those who reject God are not baptized. We have that choice. Many will make an excuse and reject the will of God, and teach others this sad doctrine. The "Pharisees" were one such people.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.


Baptism takes place after one believes.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Acts 18:8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.


You put on Christ after you are baptized, not before.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.



Many today say "we just have to love Jesus". What is love? Many today do not know what the definition of love is.

This definition implies certain things that the modern Christian doesn’t want to deal with.

2 John 1:6, "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments."

This is all so true. Thank you for posting all these scriptures.

The ones who are saying baptism is not necessary are listening to Satan, just as Eve did when told " You shall not surely die", when she was told to eat the forbidden fruit. This listening to Satan has cost many many souls the chance to be saved!

[bigthirsty]

So if you have to be baptized and you have to understand that baptism.. what about someone who is incapable of understanding? For instance, somone with a severe mental handicap?

[weatherologist]

I also have a question (actually, several) for those who believe that baptism is necessary for salvations:

1. Does baptism was us clean of our sins?

2. How many times can we be baptised?

3. Doesn't baptism sort of fall under the same category of condemnation that so many like to thow out at Catholics for going to a priest for confession?

4. What about a person who is baptized but then turns away from God? I am sure that there are some non-believers on this forum who have been baptized.

5. If we need baptism for our salvation, doesn't that contradict the fact that Jesus died for our sins and that is all we need?

6. I was baptized (sprinkled) in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as an infant. Do I need to be re-baptized?

[Towhee]

Originally Posted by weatherologist

I also have a question (actually, several) for those who believe that baptism is necessary for salvations:

1. Does baptism was us clean of our sins?

2. How many times can we be baptised?

3. Doesn't baptism sort of fall under the same category of condemnation that so many like to thow out at Catholics for going to a priest for confession?

4. What about a person who is baptized but then turns away from God? I am sure that there are some non-believers on this forum who have been baptized.

5. If we need baptism for our salvation, doesn't that contradict the fact that Jesus died for our sins and that is all we need?

6. I was baptized (sprinkled) in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as an infant. Do I need to be re-baptized?

The only way I can answer all your questions is : What does the word of God say ? I think most of the pertinent scriptures have already been posted.

Either you accept them, or you reject them, it is up to you.

[weatherologist]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

The only way I can answer all your questions is : What does the word of God say ? I think most of the pertinent scriptures have already been posted.

Either you accept them, or you reject them, it is up to you.

Well, that seems pretty PC. Maybe Hiram will be willing to answer my questions individually giving each one scripture reference.

[Hiram]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

So if you have to be baptized and you have to understand that baptism.. what about someone who is incapable of understanding? For instance, somone with a severe mental handicap?

"For He knoweth our frame: He remembereth that we are dust." Psalm 103:14

Good question. I have seen handicapped people who are baptized and also met many that even seem to have a greater concept of right and wrong. Some might obviously have no ability to understand the gospel. I know that there is nothing to stop a healthy man from being baptized, except his heart.

Originally Posted by weatherologist

I also have a question (actually, several) for those who believe that baptism is necessary for salvations:

1. Does baptism was us clean of our sins?

2. How many times can we be baptised?

3. Doesn't baptism sort of fall under the same category of condemnation that so many like to thow out at Catholics for going to a priest for confession?

4. What about a person who is baptized but then turns away from God? I am sure that there are some non-believers on this forum who have been baptized.

5. If we need baptism for our salvation, doesn't that contradict the fact that Jesus died for our sins and that is all we need?

6. I was baptized (sprinkled) in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as an infant. Do I need to be re-baptized?

1 Does baptism was us clean of our sins?

1) Acts 22:16 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


2 How many times can we be baptised?

2) Acts 19:1-5 "And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."

If you are baptized into Christ, and not into a denomination, that should be sufficient. I can elaborate more if you like.


3.Doesn't baptism sort of fall under the same category of condemnation that so many like to thow out at Catholics for going to a priest for confession?

3) Confess to God!


4. What about a person who is baptized but then turns away from God? I am sure that there are some non-believers on this forum who have been baptized.

4) Ezekiel 33:15 "[if] the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13), "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away."

John 15:5-6, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Please read the scripture below. Paul was happy he did not baptize these. Contrast this to the carnal in 1 Corinthians 3. They are being condemned for not advancing spiritually.

1 Corinthians 1:10-15 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.


5. If we need baptism for our salvation, doesn't that contradict the fact that Jesus died for our sins and that is all we need?

5)We are also required to "Die" with Him.

Romans 6:3-12 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.



6. I was baptized (sprinkled) in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as an infant. Do I need to be re-baptized?

6) As an infant were you able to understand the following things?


By Forgiving Others: (Are we saved by forgiving only?)

Matthew 6:14-15, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Matthew 18:34-35, "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

Mark 11:25-26, "And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 6:37, "...forgive (do something), and ye shall be forgiven: "

As you can see, if we do not do the godly work of forgiving others, our Father will not forgive us, and we will not be saved. If we don't DO something, God won't forgive us! The teaching that we can do anything we want and still be saved is not of God.

By Our Faith: (Are we saved by faith only?)

Luke 7:50, "And he (Jesus) said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace." (It is our faith and perseverance that also saves us).
Luke 18:42, "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee."

Matthew 15:28, "Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

By Meditating on Doctrine: (Are we saved by meditating on doctrine only?)

1 Timothy 4:15-16, "Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."

By Prayer: (Are we saved by prayer only?)

James 5:15, "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick..."

By Baptism: (Are we saved by baptism only?)

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

1 Peter 3:21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us."

By Hope: (Are we saved by hope only?)

Romans 8:24, "For we are saved by hope:"

The hope of what?

Romans 8:23, "...the redemption of our body."

By Endurance: (Are we saved by endurance only?)

Matthew 10:22, "...but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Matthew 24:13, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

By Childbearing: (Are we saved by childbearing only?)

1 Timothy 2:15, "But she shall be saved through childbearing, if they abide in faith and love and holiness with discreetness."

By Holding Fast: (Are we saved by holding fast only?)

1 Corinthians 15:2, "By which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast what I preached unto you..."

By Obedience: (Are we saved by obedience only?)

Proverbs 28:18, "Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved:"
Jeremiah 4:14, "...wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved."

Hebrews 5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

Philippians 2:12-13, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."



If one is Baptized into "the one body" we should be walking in newness of life. If we do sin, we have have the blood of Christ to cleanse us and we ask for forgiveness, and it is given freely to us.

[bigthirsty]

Originally Posted by Hiram

Some might obviously have no ability to understand the gospel.

Not to sound too stupid (which I am probably 93.5% of the time) but did you answer the question?

You may have and I just didn't understand the answer (again see above where I'm stupid 935% of the time)