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It would appear that you're tossing out a red herring.
I've already noted your so called "positive argument." In terms of a response, I deemed it to be an exercise in futility then and I still see no reason to change my view. How does any of this address the problem of how one is to distinguish between Christian dogma and atheistic dogma?
We all know what arguments are like (with respect to a certain part of the human anatomy) - everybody has one. In order to have a coherent argument one must first have familiarity with what it means to be reasonable and coherent. Integrity is also a vital component. As stated, you've aptly demonstrated your deficiencies with respect to integrity. You're also on record here as apparently positing the notion that what is contained in the Bible is of virtually no significance with respect to Christian tenets and values. To quote you:
"Christianity is the belief that the Christians believe, not the belief contained in the bible."
Hence, how could one ever expect to have a cogent, coherent, reasonable discussion with you concerning God's existence and/or the reasoned arguments for Christianity?
Why try to reason with a Christian who refuses to be reasonable?
Why try to reason the an atheist who refuses to be reasonable?
The reason I linked to the other thread is so we could avoid going off-topic on this one. Not that it's much more on point there, but at least it keeps us posting on multiple threads.
If you want to argue these points, repost over there and I'll respond.
The reason I linked to the other thread is so we could avoid going off-topic on this one. Not that it's much more on point there, but at least it keeps us posting on multiple threads.
If you want to argue these points, re-post over there and I'll respond.
Are you READING my posts???
I'm asking what possible sense it would make for me to try to have a reasoned discussion with someone who refuses to be reasonable?
I'm asking what possible sense it would make for me to try to have a reasoned discussion with someone who refuses to be reasonable?
WHY BOTHER?
Yet, you keep responding. Like a moth addicted to the flame, you can't help but reply. In a way it's like I own you, because I can control you.
But either way, that question is better asked over in the other thread, if it's too be asked at all.
Now many reasonable people, if they had your set of assumptions, would have the self-control not to reply one way or the other to this post.
But not you.
You're way to invested in this to not respond, and I predict you will not be able to prevent yourself from responding, even if it's just to say I'm not worth responding too. Like you did in your last post.
Yet, you keep responding. Like a moth addicted to the flame, you can't help but reply. In a way it's like I own you, because I can control you.
But either way, that question is better asked over in the other thread, if it's too be asked at all.
Now many reasonable people, if they had your set of assumptions, would have the self-control not to reply one way or the other to this post.
But not you.
You're way to invested in this to not respond, and I predict you will not be able to prevent yourself from responding, even if it's just to say I'm not worth responding too. Like you did in your last post.
Well, now that your 'reasoned' argumentation has devolved to the old "I'm rubber, you're glue..." mentality, I suppose this may actually be a good place to end.
I don't see how any concern over being off topic is justified. From my first post here in this thread I've merely questioned the underlying premise of the OP. Any discussion of such is perfectly fair game in my view. While I find your defense of atheism to be totally unreasoned and off topic, I don't see what would prohibit you from defending the OP's underlying premise - unless, perhaps, you're actually unable to provide a defense.
[Thx, but I'm self-blessed. Have been ever since I actively chose to become educated and world-aware! But thx again for the kindly sentiments!]
But to your point, if we do in fact find some bones together in the same undisturbed pit, same relative carbon-14 or K-Ar age, with obsidian tools that have identical fission tracking ages, and the tools in the pit have an identical X-ray fluorescence "fingerprint", all found in the exact same geostrata, with the same bone size and structure as those others in that other nearby pit, and perhaps even with an obvious continuation of the same spear scrape mark down the femur and on into the tibia, you'd deny it came from the same individual or tribe or age? You handily and ignore lt all, while yowling that such determinations are all just some assumptive scientist's wild guesses, all fraught with personal bias and prevarication?
(Or worse, a global conspiracy, all kept über-secret all these years?....Uhhmmm....)
Well of course you would, if it serves the 'cause' of denialism.
Your obvious total lack of understanding of the ever-growing complexity and thoroughness of modern technologies, and the irrefutable logic of cross-technology confirmation, is painful, but only for you. I know, it's hard, but you should at least pick one small area of technology and try to keep up. I'd suggest, again, Scientific American. It might even open your mind to other modern ideas!
By your preferred lack of interest or understanding of both sides of this debate, you are hereby officially a member in good standing of The Great Misguided Unbelievers Society, stuck in a world strictly limited by the words of a very small book and fable-set, one crammed with what we now know to be irrational and ambiguous impossibilities that are absent any proofs whatsoever except in the imaginations of those with a unmanageable fear of death.
All those worthwhile ideas, replaced by simple prayer and faith, all unquestioned.
How exciting a perspective this must provide for you and your "flat earth veldt-geist"! (Ooops! Careful! You don't want to fall off the 'edge' of your limited reality world, now do you now?)
Shalom Mr. self blessed...simple prayer and faith in Yeshua Messiac will always be questioned by the rank and file of the overtly educated...perfectly logical for someone with such a high intelligence quotient to mathematically reduce the immutable, and irrefutable realm of THE GREAT I AM into a lead pipe. All the "prevarication" is the result of what you think you own. The Eternal One does not seek yours, but you. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you Peace in His Christ...
"Education" means exactly that; an effort that begins with stuff presented to us all by our concerned parents, and then usually taken over by ourselves in an attempt to better our understanding in limited areas ("I think I shall become a basketweaver par excellence, and nothing else!") or may extend significantly by those who choose to always engage in reading, studying, listening, considering, and revising. As in: always learning, and willingly so.
In the case of many staunch religious types, their personal educational end-point is reached as soon as they are warned that they are treading on hallowed ground, challenging the status-quo, or showing too much perspective and reason. In my case, I was told I was asking too many "difficult" questions of my family minister, that I should just "go with God, my son!" This of course, immediately triggered the predictable beginning of the end of my association with the suppressing effects of organized Christianity.
More to the point, it shows that, in many cases, religious folk have purposefully chosen to stop their personal education at some point in time or knowledge.
To hold the banner of "over-education" against someone, to suggest this has "over-prepped" them past some reasonable point, is to show one's own lack of respect for carefully derived fact and information, or the limits to their own working intelligence, plus the barely hidden fact that they would culturally prefer us all to be essentially stupid. Dumbed down and obedient.
Praise The Lord, for only He can provide all the answers....
Shalom Mr. self blessed...simple prayer and faith in Yeshua Messiac will always be questioned by the rank and file of the overtly educated...perfectly logical for someone with such a high intelligence quotient to mathematically reduce the immutable, and irrefutable realm of THE GREAT I AM into a lead pipe. All the "prevarication" is the result of what you think you own. The Eternal One does not seek yours, but you. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you Peace in His Christ...
Are you a real person or some sort of automated christian computer program?
Shalom Mr. self blessed...simple prayer and faith in Yeshua Messiac will always be questioned by the rank and file of the overtly educated...perfectly logical for someone with such a high intelligence quotient to mathematically reduce the immutable, and irrefutable realm of THE GREAT I AM into a lead pipe.
Well, I see Fundamentalist Christians, in particular, put Creator into a very small box all the time. "See, here's god." So, I suppose it's only fair.
"Education" means exactly that; an effort that begins with stuff presented to us all by our concerned parents, and then usually taken over by ourselves in an attempt to better our understanding in limited areas ("I think I shall become a basketweaver par excellence, and nothing else!") or may extend significantly by those who choose to always engage in reading, studying, listening, considering, and revising. As in: always learning, and willingly so.
In the case of many staunch religious types, their personal educational end-point is reached as soon as they are warned that they are treading on hallowed ground, challenging the status-quo, or showing too much perspective and reason. In my case, I was told I was asking too many "difficult" questions of my family minister, that I should just "go with God, my son!" This of course, immediately triggered the predictable beginning of the end of my association with the suppressing effects of organized Christianity.
More to the point, it shows that, in many cases, religious folk have purposefully chosen to stop their personal education at some point in time or knowledge.
To hold the banner of "over-education" against someone, to suggest this has "over-prepped" them past some reasonable point, is to show one's own lack of respect for carefully derived fact and information, or the limits to their own working intelligence, plus the barely hidden fact that they would culturally prefer us all to be essentially stupid. Dumbed down and obedient.
Praise The Lord, for only He can provide all the answers....
sorry. no.
Shalom...respectfully sir, we never wrote that you or your cohorts are "over-educated" or "over-prepped"...we said "overtly" educated. "Overtly" as in 'here is my resume concerning everything I know;' and "overtly" as in 'look at all of my degrees and accomplishments framed in various colors.' Your own offense at the cross of Christ is as well, overt, revealing the obvious...that facts and information you "carefully derived" were eloquently handed to you on a Darwinian platter. The facts and information you "derived" have a source...a material rock that according to chance squeezed out what eventually evolved into you and your "overtly" prepped cohorts...an assumption far below any reasonable point of intelligence graciously given by G-d that you and your cohorts overtly choose not to deliberate, with G-d. Your own cultural preference (no G-d), is essentially stupid. It is a vain attempt to "dumb down" the spoken word of G-d in obedience to a material rock which could not have by any means, even if left to chance, ever squeezed out accidental you or your cohorts. Respectfully, The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you into the obedience of His Christ...
Are you a real person or some sort of automated christian computer program?
Just checking.
Shalom...your phone is ringing . The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you His Agape Love before you ever think to ask...
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The Truth
. The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you His Agape Love before you ever think to ask...
