Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
America was founded by people wanting religious freedom...they left the Old World and came here...
NOW...the wonderful christians want it all their way...cram it down everyones throat to the point where they are still re-writing history...you would think that re-writing of history thing would be harder to do now that most people can read, we have TV and the internet...
The first part is correct....people wanting religious freedom....not freedom from religion.
I am not clear on what you mean with the stuff after NOW....
I'm atheist, and I do subtle things during the Holiday Season. I don't have a tree to put up (don't want one, either. It's just another thing to store in the closet and rearrange furniture for). I do have a small nativity set that my grandmother gave me years ago. It may seem silly that I'd put it out because I don't have any special feelings about what the figurines represent other than the fact that they just remind me of grandma. My roommate, also atheist, has a menorah that her parents gave her. So we set them out on our bar next to the buddha statue that sits there year-round. The days off from work give me a chance to head down to Virginia to see family. We do "Giftmas" on the morning of the 25th, everyone exchanging gifts, and my nephew opening presents from Santa Claus.
I think the whole "Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays" thing is kinda silly. What does it matter, really? If someone is kind enough to share good wishes, whatever they are, be grateful.
That's pretty unfair there, gizmo. I guess I don't understand your definition of 'rule the country'.
Sorry, I didn't mean that in an insulting way... what I meant was that you're already the dominant force in this country, as you make up (approx) 75% of our population. Not to mention, government holidays & school vacations are usually based around the Christian holidays & calendar. When was the last time a post office was closed for Rosh Hashana? Anyway, that's all I meant!
I think the whole "Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays" thing is kinda silly. What does it matter, really? If someone is kind enough to share good wishes, whatever they are, be grateful.
Yes, exactly... I don't get insulted when somebody wishes me a "Merry Christmas", since I know their intentions are good. So why all the fuss over a more inclusive holiday greeting? You, as a public citizen, are still free to say whatever you want - so you all can say Merry Christmas to your heart's desire, and I'll respond however I feel at the time. Okay?
I think the only problem I have is with people that feel "disenfranchised" (or whatever stupid term is being used these days) by the well wishes of others just because they hold a different belief system. Just be happy! Kindness is so hard to find these days, we should cherish it.
Sorry, I didn't mean that in an insulting way... what I meant was that you're already the dominant force in this country, as you make up (approx) 75% of our population. Not to mention, government holidays & school vacations are usually based around the Christian holidays & calendar. When was the last time a post office was closed for Rosh Hashana? Anyway, that's all I meant!
Well, this may get OT, but I don't think it will.
Can I just ask your honest opinion on why you think these things are true?
Why do you think America is the way it is?
Because Christians invaded an atheistic country and took over all the holidays?
Or because when America was founded Christianity was the widely accepted belief?
Is it still this way because Christians have fought to keep it this way, or is it this way because, as of today, those aren't things that have been changed as a result of this country's unbelief and anti-Christian sentiment?
I'm just curious. It's not like Christians rallied to have these things put in place, someone somewhere somehow, knew the populace agreed with it.
And until quite recently, there hasn't been an argument.
Now, it get louder every year.
I really have little doubt that in the end, the 'other side' will have Christmas eradicated. And if the numbers you used are accurate, that means that 1/4 of the people are controlling and changing what 3/4 of the country supports.
I am not upset by "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", and sometimes I will use the "Happy Holidays" greeting myself depending upon circumstances. It is sometimes more appropriate. So, my aggravation in this issue is not which one we choose to say, but is rather when we are prohibited from saying one or the other.
I recall hearing stories about Target employees who were fired after greeting customers with "Merry Christmas". I have been around Target employees who were afraid to look at a customer who had greeted them with "Merry Christmas".
We talk about this being an issue of promotion of a religious holiday through the use of the phrase, but we don't consider it repression when we ban the use. If a person is afraid of retribution for using a phrase because it might be considered offensive because of it's religious connotation, how is that not religious persecution?
I can agree with restriction of prostelization , but where does that line get drawn? Freedom of speech must also apply to religious speech or it is not true freedom.
The origin of a holiday not longer matters if nobody can recall exactly what it was. The only thing that matters is the present symbolism. Historical symbolism is nice and makes wonderful traditions, IF someone makes the association. If not, then it is only good for Trivial Pursuit.
In America today, we see that Christmas has several meanings to people and people choose which they want to celebrate. To some it is a day off work, to others it is a new wardrobe. Some see it as a time to reflect on family, others a time to reflect on their beliefs. It does not matter which you choose to celebrate. Pick one and have fun with it. We can call it Holliday 16 if you wish, as long as we can put our own meaning to it we will enjoy it. It only becomes a problem when you tell me I cannot make my own associations and must either abandon the holiday or take on associations you choose for me.
Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Halloween, Veteren Day and even Arbor Day have all changed their symbolic associations over the years. That doesn't make them any less valid for anyone who chooses to celebrate them. I don't guess anyone here still celebrates Armistice Day, huh?
Can I just ask your honest opinion on why you think these things are true?
Why do you think America is the way it is?
Because Christians invaded an atheistic country and took over all the holidays?
Or because when America was founded Christianity was the widely accepted belief?
Is it still this way because Christians have fought to keep it this way, or is it this way because, as of today, those aren't things that have been changed as a result of this country's unbelief and anti-Christian sentiment?
I'm just curious. It's not like Christians rallied to have these things put in place, someone somewhere somehow, knew the populace agreed with it.
And until quite recently, there hasn't been an argument.
Now, it get louder every year.
I really have little doubt that in the end, the 'other side' will have Christmas eradicated. And if the numbers you used are accurate, that means that 1/4 of the people are controlling and changing what 3/4 of the country supports.
I think you're right ON topic. I wish I hadn't just repped you, so I could rep you for this post.
Also, agree with you, johnrex62. You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to johnrex62 again.
Last edited by eufo; 07-19-2007 at 02:54 PM..
Reason: Trying to avoid multiple posts
I'm curious to know how other atheists deal with Christmas. Or Christians who are together with an atheist.
Here's my version...
We don't have enough holidays as it is, so I look forward to Christmas because of the days off. However, I do feel cheated if Christmas falls on a weekend. Surely, we all, atheist and Christian alike, appreciate the time off from our jobs to spend with family and friends.
From the official launch of the hectic shopping fury at Thanksgiving until Christmas I avoid malls. I only shop at my local grocery store.
At home I have no tree, nor any decorations.
Since many years I have an agreement with friends, no exchange of gifts. I receive none and give none. I am glad to avoid the traffic jams, the jockeying for parking spaces, the pushing, the shoving, the short-fused people at long check out lines at the registers, and various other stressful incidents. Not to mention plunging into debt to buy gifts.
I send a small amount of cards and receive about the same. If someone sends me a religiously oriented card, I am not offended. Actually, I am glad to hear from these people. I also have no problem with wishing anyone a Merry Christmas. I will gladly return the Merry Christmas with a smile. Whatever the messages on banners and posters at stores doesn't bother me, because they are only interested in boosting sales.
The bombardment of TV and radio commercials increases to an intolerable level (Buy this, buy that!), also I find most Christmas music to be too cheesey, so during that time I rely mostly on my collection of CDs and cassette tapes.
On the Eve, itself, we set the table nicely, maybe with candles, and have a delicious home-cooked meal along with a bottle of French red wine. Followed by a simple dessert such as baked apples. When the meal is finished it's time to sit back, while enjoying a glass of cognac with coffee, and listening to classical music.
Very interesting. I myself am not an atheist. I'm a Christian. But as a Jehovah's Witness, I take my relationship with God very seriously and knowing the origins of the holiday as I do, I can't conscientiously allow myself to celebrate it. Almost all the practices associated with it have nothing to do w/ the birth of Christ but are actually connected to the pagan Winter Solstice which fell on the dates surrounding Dec 25th.
However, like you, I enjoy the time off from work and use the time to spend w/ my family or go on vacation. In that sense, we appreciate national holidays.
You can hit with a rep point later. I know you are good for it! http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x65/markablue/6.gif (broken link)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
