Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well I supposse if I had all afternoon to go round and round with you we could. These verses talk about those who are in Christ going to heaven. We only die once. So we are in heaven or hell when we die based on that belief in Christ as Savior. If not we will be in hell for our stubbon refusal to believe. That is Hell. Tormented day and night forever and ever is day and night forever and ever! Pretty clear to me.
Yes, in the ENGLISH translation. What I'm trying to convey to you and everyone else is that the Bible does not speak of eternal punishment, but punishment lasting AN AGE (Aion).
If the Greek word Aion and its derivatives mean eternal as some Bible scholars insist, why did contemporary Greek usage of it, at the time the New Testament was written, not carry with it the idea of endless eternity? (Works by Plato, Aristotle, Homer, Hippocrates and many others use these words in a limited, not an eternal sense).
There are other Greek words used to refer to the unending power and life of God. They are, aptharsia/apthartos, which means imperishableness and immortality; amarantinos/amarantos which mean unfading; and akatalytos , which means indestructable. They are usually translated as immortal, or incorruptible.
If Hell is real, how does the threat of endlessly torturing us convince us that God loves us and that we should love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength?
We are taught that the justice of God demands a place like Hell in which the wicked shall be eternally punished for their sins. Not true! The justice of God demanded a perfect sacrifice for sin, and that man was Christ Jesus. The justice of God will certainly come to every person, and God may deal severely with our sins as He subdues and gathers all things to Christ, but to punish people endlessly for crimes committed in a short human lifespan defies all logic and justice. How is it just to have unending punishment for offenses that have limits?
Ill kick the dead horse one more time.....the problem I have with this is....Who are we as humans to decide what is just and unjust, or that the punishment fits the crime..God is holy and awesome..who am I to say what God can or cant do? or say that what he does is wrong? From the book of Job...Chapter 40
1 And the LORD said to Job: 2 "Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it."
Chapter 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind: 2 "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up your loins like a man, I will question you, and you shall declare to me.
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements--surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Jesus believed in eternal hell, look at the price He paid to provide us an escape from it.
Not exactly true! Hell was never a place that the Jews were hoping to be saved from, since they didn’t even believe in it! But they did need to be saved from their sins and consequences of them; namely death.
Jesus came as the Anointed One to fulfill all of God’s plan for the earth—that through Him might come the salvation, deliverance of sin, peace, kingdom of God and all that God had promised through the Old Testament scriptures. This, ILNC, is why Jesus died!
Ill kick the dead horse one more time.....the problem I have with this is....Who are we as humans to decide what is just and unjust, or that the punishment fits the crime..God is holy and awesome..who am I to say what God can or cant do? or say that what he does is wrong? From the book of Job...Chapter 40
1 And the LORD said to Job: 2 "Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty? He who argues with God, let him answer it."
Chapter 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind: 2 "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up your loins like a man, I will question you, and you shall declare to me.
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements--surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Yes arguy, but I am not questioning God's judgements--you all are! Only if the punishment fits no purpose but to endlessly torture with no hope of reformation is it just? This is blasphemous to me. Not that you're trying to be so, but I'm just saying this is how it appears from my viewpoint.
Revelation 20:10
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Yes arguy, but I am not questioning God's judgements--you all are! Only if the punishment fits no purpose but to endlessly torture with no hope of reformation is it just? This is blasphemous to me. Not that you're trying to be so, but I'm just saying this is how it appears from my viewpoint.
I dont have a problem with what the Bible says...Im not the one trying to say it means something else, I respect your right to do so, thats your option. Im just a old fashioned KJV type of guy that believes theres not a conspiracy theory so to speak on Hell. That being said, I believe that God is overly capable of making anytype of judgement he sees fit, I dont think thats blaspemous at all. Hes God..I aint.
Revelation 20:10
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Again, Jazzed, incorrect translation. How many different ways can I say it?
I am not denying that the New Testament is full of warnings of judgment, and that the words, “everlasting” and “eternal” appear often in most translations. However, a careful study of the words that are translated to mean forever or everlasting, will prove that they have been mistranslated. The question is not whether or not God will punish sin and rebellion, but rather how He does it, and for what purpose and how long the correction lasts.
"And these will go away into eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).
The universalists do not believe in eternal punishment. Universalists teach that all will eventually be saved through the atonement of Jesus. Therefore, when the Bible speaks of eternal punishment and hell fire, etc., the universalist interprets it to mean an inner sorrow due to loss of reward and/or they maintain that the word "eternal" does not mean "without end."
In Greek, the word "eternal" is the word "", or "aionion." This word occurs in two places in Matt. 25:46: Let's look at it again in a Greek Interlinear form:
The exact same word "," "aionion" is used to describe the duration of punishment as well as of the life of the righteous - those who are saved. The same word describes both conditions. If it means one thing in the first part of this sentence, then it means the same thing in the second part since they are both in the same context and both are describing time-duration of the states of the unsaved and the saved. If the punishment is eternal, then so is the life. Likewise, if, as the universalist says, the punishment is not eternal, then neither is the life. You can't pick and choose how the word is applied in this verse to suit your own theology.
But the universalists do just that. They want to have Jesus say that eternal life is forever but eternal punishment is not -- even though Jesus used the same word, in the same breath, to describe them both. It just doesn't fit their preconceived ideas.
I dont have a problem with what the Bible says...Im not the one trying to say it means something else, I respect your right to do so, thats your option. Im just a old fashioned KJV type of guy that believes theres not a conspiracy theory so to speak on Hell. That being said, I believe that God is overly capable of making anytype of judgement he sees fit, I dont think thats blaspemous at all. Hes God..I aint.
conspiracy theory! -- I loved that, arguy! That really does capture the essence of this argument IMO!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Conspiracy theory...not!!
That really does capture the essence of this argument IMO!
