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Old 07-19-2007, 01:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
1)3) Sorta, yes. I think it is in general God's will to heal everyone who has faith. (When Jesus was on earth, He healed everyone that we have record of ever coming to Him for healing.) But I think there are times it may not be His will to heal and usually, God alone knows the reason. (Example, the apostle Paul's "thorn in the flesh.")

In the book of James, we are told to call for the elders and have them pray for us to be healed if we are sick. I believe we should always come to God and confidently ask for healing.
I can agree with this and I do believe healing is accomplished in the atonement and the sacrifice of Christ, He said so Himself. However, there is a verse, in Luke I think, that says Jesus healed because the power of God was on Him that allowed Him to heal. It's a very difficult subject, and I hope I didn't sound too condemning in my last post, but speaking on this subject in absolutes is quite dangerous.

While healing is possible, nothing is 'owed' to us. If we're sick, we're sick.

I do, however, strongly support laying hands, anointing with oil, and praying for the sick and afflicted.

Am I sounding contradictory?
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
so how do you account for the 'few exceptions'?

Crush someone and tell them they don't have enough faith???!!!
No, in fact I said..."If He does not, then there is a factor not known to anyone but God at play and we have to trust that there was a reason for it."

Alpha, do you believe that this world is under the dominion of Satan at the present time? If so, are there no other benefits to accepting Christ other than salvation? I beleive that this verse is talking about more than just salvation.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I can agree with this and I do believe healing is accomplished in the atonement and the sacrifice of Christ, He said so Himself. However, there is a verse, in Luke I think, that says Jesus healed because the power of God was on Him that allowed Him to heal. It's a very difficult subject, and I hope I didn't sound too condemning in my last post, but speaking on this subject in absolutes is quite dangerous.

While healing is possible, nothing is 'owed' to us. If we're sick, we're sick.

I do, however, strongly support laying hands, anointing with oil, and praying for the sick and afflicted.

Am I sounding contradictory?
Yes. Again, why did Jesus take our sickness upon Himself as part of His work on the cross?
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
Is that what you're saying, Alpha. If so, no argument from me even though I come down pretty heavy on the side of healing.
Actually, I come down hard on the side of healing as well. I think we should be able to approach the throne and ask anything in boldness from our Father. I just don't think that if the person isn't healed, then it means there was a failure.

And I've felt like that before, as I would venture a guess anyone who's prayed for the sick has. Kaykay, have you ever prayed for someone who didn't get well and then question whether your faith wasn't right, there's wasn't, maybe you didn't say the right things etc....that's what I am talking about. The devil can use these things to weaken our faith. And sometimes, God is just being God. We should be obedient in the prayers and actions, but we should also allow room for God's will.

Maybe I'm just venting my own personal struggles, maybe I'm the only one.....
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
Alpha, do you believe that this world is under the dominion of Satan at the present time?
Yes I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
If so, are there no other benefits to accepting Christ other than salvation? I beleive that this verse is talking about more than just salvation.
No there are many. But that verse does not describe them.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
Yes. Again, why did Jesus take our sickness upon Himself as part of His work on the cross?
The same reason He did all the work on the cross, out of obedience to the Father and love for us.

Why aren't all sick people healed immediately when they obtain salvation?
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Actually, I come down hard on the side of healing as well. I think we should be able to approach the throne and ask anything in boldness from our Father. I just don't think that if the person isn't healed, then it means there was a failure.

And I've felt like that before, as I would venture a guess anyone who's prayed for the sick has. Kaykay, have you ever prayed for someone who didn't get well and then question whether your faith wasn't right, there's wasn't, maybe you didn't say the right things etc....that's what I am talking about. The devil can use these things to weaken our faith. And sometimes, God is just being God. We should be obedient in the prayers and actions, but we should also allow room for God's will.

Maybe I'm just venting my own personal struggles, maybe I'm the only one.....
No, I pretty much agree. Doesn't look like too much potential for a fiesty debate here! A lot of things about healing are a mystery I think.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
No there are many. But that verse does not describe them.
You forgot to add "in your opinion". In mine, it does.

Again, I don't believe that if some one does not recieve healing that is necessarily for lack of faith, and I'm not going to assume the worst. I'll assume what I said earlier, that there are things that God knows and we don't and I trust in Him to care for the individual in question.

The Bible says that Satan came to steal, kill, and destroy, but God gives life more abundantly. I believe that sickness is something that we as believers can ask God for healing from and if asked in faith, the majority of the time if you truly believe, God will grant it. If not, see above.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
You forgot to add "in your opinion".
I didn't forget to add anything.
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
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Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
The same reason He did all the work on the cross, out of obedience to the Father and love for us.

Why aren't all sick people healed immediately when they obtain salvation?
Because they live on this planet. Jesus said that one's faith makes one whole. I doubt they are full up on faith when first saved. Again, it's all about balance. Sickness is part of this world and God has drawn us out of the world into His kingdom. As our faith is so be it unto us. If someone does not get healed it may be because they didn't really believe or it may be that God has other plans and sees a big picture that we do not.

And if it was out of obedience to the Father and love for us, WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED by the taking of our sickness upon Himself?
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