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I have always found it interesting that so much vitriol can be hurled at a God people don't believe in based on His actions in a book they think is nothing but fiction, yet not once mention that the exact same book says that "even while they were sinners" this same God was willing to take on human flesh and die for them, because He loved them. They accuse Him of genocide for the flood, without once acknowledging that the same book that says the flood happened, also says that mans thoughts were evil continually. It says that God pleaded with mankind, through His faithful follower Noah, for over 100 years, and they did nothing but mock him. Mankind was so evil and wicked that only eight people made it onto the ark. People make it sound like God wiped out a society of care-bears or something. The Aztecs were offering up their women and children as human sacrifices, what kind of evil were a people who lived 900 years capable of? Maybe us contrary and squabbling human beings are the inconsistent and contradictory ones who can't get anything right and God is just doing His best to save our mucklin behinds.
So how about a little consistency about what parts of this book you are going to get all angered over. I have not once ever hear an atheist express any anger over the way Christ was treated, but they get all "save the whales" about an evil society getting wiped out by a flood. Oh, and the whole Egyptian first born thing? Every person was told what would happen, when it would happen, and how to prevent it from happening. God said "let my people go" and He warned them nine times. By the tenth time it was down to "let my children go, or I'll take yours", but still God should mercy and put the choice on them because any person could have prevented the death of their first born by simply marking their door with the blood as they were instructed.
Why do you try to let your god off the hook for being the one responsible for creating us the way we are? He created us, knowing that we would sin, and he punished not just Adam, but all of mankind with the stain of original sin. He didn't have to do that. However, because of that, we are all born with a sin nature and are predisposed to sin, through no fault of our own. So what should god expect? And being omniscient he would have known that people would sin and do evil. So what exactly did the flood accomplish? It certainly didn't wipe out sin and evil from the earth!
This is a perfect case of unbelievers playing around with the, "ok, let's assume your god exists why would would/does he blah blah blah...[/i]. I think it is already understood (by the atheist) that there is NO evidence that such a being exists, but we play along as if he does to show the various absurdities found in the bible to MAKE or PROVE a point. This thread is a perfect example as it is clear (to me, at least) no such god exists and the 10 Commandments originated in the mind of fallible humans with an agenda so there is no surprise that a few chapters later, these same humans are ordered to kill Midianites because they enticed them to have an orgy.
If any of you here think that you could possibly understand the mind of God, a being so far above us all that He is incomprehensible then you are insane. God is DIVINE, and the Creator of all things.
If any of you here think that you could possibly understand the mind of God, a being so far above us all that He is incomprehensible then you are insane. God is DIVINE, and the Creator of all things.
I don't see anything here so hard to figure not comprehend. Humans wrote the bible detailing stories of a conceived god they filtered their experiences through so it is NO secret we find a god who reflects their times and their understanding hence the contradictions.
Why do you try to let your god off the hook for being the one responsible for creating us the way we are? He created us, knowing that we would sin, and he punished not just Adam, but all of mankind with the stain of original sin. He didn't have to do that. However, because of that, we are all born with a sin nature and are predisposed to sin, through no fault of our own.
God did not create us the way we ARE. God created Adam/Eve the way they WERE and their CHOICE to sin lead to us being the way we are. If a pregnant mother shoots heroine, her baby will be born a heroin addict. Not because God imposed a heroin addiction on the baby, but because the mother made a choice that affected the baby. Sin is the heroin that Adam/Eve took, causing all their descents to be born with this addiction to sin. Sin was not an imposed punishment on Adam/Eve. It was the intrinsic result of disobedience. Adam/Eve's punishment was getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Using the heroine analogy again, if you were to get caught shooting heroine, you will probably get arrested and thrown in jail. The jail time you serve is a punishment, but the addiction to heroine that you have is the natural result of using heroine.
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Originally Posted by mythunderstood
So what should god expect?
That we would need a Savior.
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Originally Posted by mythunderstood
And being omniscient he would have known that people would sin and do evil.
And He had a contingency plan in place for that.....The Cross of Calvary.
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Originally Posted by mythunderstood
So what exactly did the flood accomplish? It certainly didn't wipe out sin and evil from the earth!
It accomplished the same thing that is accomplished when a doctor cuts out a tumor and then radiates a person to try and prevent that tumor from growing back. It doesn't guarantee that the person will never get cancer again, but it certainly can buy the patient some time and prevent the tumor from taking over the persons entire body, and killing them. Sin, had gotten so bad and spread so much that by the time the flood came there where only eight human beings worth saving. It did not mean that those eight where sinless, but they had "followed their doctors orders" and their "cancer" was in "remission", so to speak. Had the Lord not intervened at that point, there would have been no "good cells" left to save, and humanity would have destroyed itself.
God did not create us the way we ARE. God created Adam/Eve the way they WERE and their CHOICE to sin lead to us being the way we are. If a pregnant mother shoots heroine, her baby will be born a heroin addict. Not because God imposed a heroin addiction on the baby, but because the mother made a choice that affected the baby. Sin is the heroin that Adam/Eve took, causing all their descents to be born with this addiction to sin. Sin was not an imposed punishment on Adam/Eve. It was the intrinsic result of disobedience. Adam/Eve's punishment was getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Using the heroine analogy again, if you were to get caught shooting heroine, you will probably get arrested and thrown in jail. The jail time you serve is a punishment, but the addiction to heroine that you have is the natural result of using heroine.
That we would need a Savior.
And He had a contingency plan in place for that.....The Cross of Calvary.
It accomplished the same thing that is accomplished when a doctor cuts out a tumor and then radiates a person to try and prevent that tumor from growing back. It doesn't guarantee that the person will never get cancer again, but it certainly can buy the patient some time and prevent the tumor from taking over the persons entire body, and killing them. Sin, had gotten so bad and spread so much that by the time the flood came there where only eight human beings worth saving. It did not mean that those eight where sinless, but they had "followed their doctors orders" and their "cancer" was in "remission", so to speak. Had the Lord not intervened at that point, there would have been no "good cells" left to save, and humanity would have destroyed itself.
Hi HalfNelson. God created Adam and Eve exactly as they were supposed to be. They were supposed to fall. God saw the end before the beginning, He knew they would fall and created them and the circunstancees that proceeded it so they would fall. Remember the savior was " slain before the foundation of the world." He was in place before Adam and Eve were created. It is all part of God's plan. He does not make mistakes and therefore has no contingincy because none is needed.
We keep trying to explain God as if he were a man. God is not a man. His ways and thinking are much higher than ours. He knows all because he created all and is in control of his creation at all times. The clay was marred in the potters hand but never leaves the potters hand and will be made perfect in the right time.
So this God knew they would fall and sin, knew what was going to happen to man ( flood wiping them out) and allowed the suffering and devastation to happen regardless. Seems like a masochist.
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