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Thanks. I actually prefer to take it one step at a time.
Why does anything exist rather than nothing?
Also, we actually get the "first cause theorem" from science. Do you know of any effects in nature that have no cause?
Are you inclined to accept Big Bang cosmology?
The first cause theorem used by creationists falls upon it's own sword,because it wants exemption of the first cause from causation itself.If God can exist without a first cause,why do you demand a first cause for a material universe?
As to the Big Bang Theory,in general,yes.But it is constantly evolving as we learn more and more.
The "there must have been a God to create everything " argument won't work.Like I said,if you will exempt God from needing a causation,then you have likewise granted evolution an exemption also.
The first cause theorem used by creationists falls upon it's own sword,because it wants exemption of the first cause from causation itself.If God can exist without a first cause,why do you demand a first cause for a material universe?
As to the Big Bang Theory,in general,yes.But it is constantly evolving as we learn more and more.
The "there must have been a God to create everything " argument won't work.Like I said,if you will exempt God from needing a causation,then you have likewise granted evolution an exemption also.
It certainly is the same thing.
A supernatural source of energy which is what some call God.
Others call it "I dunno" some kind of energy,let's call it Joe because if we call it God we can't keep getting grant money.
It certainly is the same thing.
A supernatural source of energy which is what some call God.
Others call it "I dunno" some kind of energy,let's call it Joe because if we call it God we can't keep getting grant money.
OK,if you wish.Some people call cows God as well.Do cows prove the existence of the Hindu god?
Labeling a natural phenomenon as God does nothing to prove His existence.You have simply moved from labeling the erupting volcano as God to calling the dark energy of the universe God.
If this is the best you can do,then I can safely dismiss your argument.Especially since you have offered no proof that the energy IS supernatural rather than natural.
You labeled it as supernatural,so spare me the lecture on string theory and quantum mechanics.Nothing supernatural about them.
Do you have anything or not.Can I dismiss you as irrelevant to this discussion on focus on the others?
So you think an energy source capable of holding all matter together is just merely natural?
Then where is it?
How is it measured?
How come it does not change?
Not my fault you just want to use basic argumentative techniques instead of discussing facts.
The first cause theorem used by creationists falls upon it's own sword,because it wants exemption of the first cause from causation itself.If God can exist without a first cause,why do you demand a first cause for a material universe?
As to the Big Bang Theory,in general,yes.But it is constantly evolving as we learn more and more.
The "there must have been a God to create everything " argument won't work.Like I said,if you will exempt God from needing a causation,then you have likewise granted evolution an exemption also .
Did God begin to exist, or, does God have a beginning?
Did matter begin to exist or is it eternal? As far as I'm aware, science points to all things in nature as being contingent - life and death, beginning and ending. Did you choose to be born for instance?
It seems to me that, logically, there must be something out there that exists necessarily. In other words, something that possesses the very power of existence within itself. You are of course free to disagree, but I would be interested in a more reasoned explanation - if you have one.
To state that God requires a beginning is to make a statement concerning God's nature. If no God exists, how can you possibly be in any position to make statements concerning God's supposed nature?
So you think an energy source capable of holding all matter together is just merely natural?
Then where is it?
How is it measured?
How come it does not change?
Not my fault you just want to use basic argumentative techniques instead of discussing facts.
You have offered nothing in the way of facts,merely called some aspect of the universe "God".Is gravity God then?Is electricity?Is magnetism?
OK,if you wish.Some people call cows God as well.Do cows prove the existence of the Hindu god?
Labeling a natural phenomenon as God does nothing to prove His existence.
If this is the best you can do,then I can safely dismiss your argument.Especially since you have offered no proof that the energy IS supernatural rather than natural.
Did God begin to exist, or, does God have a beginning?
Did matter begin to exist or is it eternal? As far as I'm aware, science points to all things in nature as being contingent - life and death, beginning and ending. Did you choose to be born for instance?
It seems to me that, logically, there must be something out there that exists necessarily. In other words, something that possesses the very power of existence within itself. You are of course free to disagree, but I would be interested in a more reasoned explanation - if you have one.
To state that God requires a beginning is to make a statement concerning God's nature. If no God exists, how can you possibly be in any position to make statements concerning God's supposed nature?
You are veering off into philosophical arguments,especially in your last statement.Nothing wrong with that,but I am not much of a philosopher.I simple ask why you would demand a first cause for a material world but not for God.Your question does not answer this.If your belief needs no first cause for God but is allowed to believe that He always existed,then why aren't atheists allowed to believe that matter has always existed?
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