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Ya gotta remember, Lincoln was a consummate politician and he was playing to a largely illiterate populace.
I agree. And really, who cares what he said anyway. He was a product of his century.
People can quote all kinds of religious sayings from famous people but again, who cares. The proof, or lack thereof, at least for atheists like myself, is tangible evidence.
Religions have corrupted and debased the concept of God so badly that they have created people like you, Seeker
Religion did not create me, I used my logic for once and dismissed the absurd.
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unable to consider God as separate from the corrupt and absurd "beliefs about" God that religions have been pushing. You know the difference between a metaphorical and a literal use of the term, Seeker
Yes, if you read on I said the English language has to be redefined, this heart is a non entity to describe feelings like butterflies in your chest when you fall in love, constriction when you are in a fearful situation etc. This is all as a result of the brain doing its thing. Claiming this is a soul then the soul must be responsible for a women getting moist and a man getting an erection when they kiss and fondle. It is all the brain working and instincts at work. Folk were obviously aware of this and could not explain it other than some invisible entity that exists inside the body. I am sure with early anatomy they searched for this and found nothing but a pump.
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don't be disingenuous.Only according to religions, Seeker . . . God has no such requirement.
If it is not religion how then are we supposed to do it? Meditate? Why should I enter into an altered state on mind (the brain working again) to connect with god? The human is not "designed" to be anything other than fully alert when awake for survival from predators (in terms of the hunter gatherer) We know now was causes the heart to beat faster when in danger, it is called adrenalin, the good feelings caused by endorphins etc. These all work pretty fine w/o some invisible god or soul.
Religion merely gives a mechanism to connect to a non existent god, it willingly or unwittingly uses the brain's nuances to trick people into belief, the goosebump anointing, the fear etc. Once the primordial instinct has been tapped into, then any suggestion can be taken as truth, the natural instinctive aspects have been hijacked and then you are psyched up and ready to charge into battle w/o a care in the world be it proselytizing or killing you opponent. The normal emotion of fear to survive is switched off and you then enter into a state of a zombie. I experienced this as an 18 yo in the army when at that age, my natural instincts was to find a mate and deal with the hormones in my body. It works, most at 18 yo are not violent and are not politically motivated. This kill skill has to be taught and the hate for the enemy instilled as a fear, they call it discipline and with it comes the group think, obeying orders, believing your sergeant is godlike and has more wisdom even though he is a mere two years older than you. Of course the church uses the exact same tactics maybe with a little more subtlety but it taps into the same mechanisms.
Politicians do it, pastors do it, musicians do it. You create the right environment and people can be manipulated to do anything.
So once you have come to realise what it is that causes the effect, you can set up your own defense mechanisms to oppose it. That in essence is where I am at.
Any form of god connectivity will require, I lower my defenses, check in my logic and then allow myself to be manipulated. Even reading a book could cause this.
Having achieved a level of contentment, there is no need or space that a god or other mythical character needs to fill. I killed the bogyman.
Your version of god can meet me where I am at, an in-person appearance and nothing less. Face to face in front of at least two witnesses, while I am sober and awake.
Can't do it? Well then he/she/it does not deserve the time of day from me.
Religion did not create me, I used my logic for once and dismissed the absurd.
Yes, if you read on I said the English language has to be redefined, this heart is a non entity to describe feelings like butterflies in your chest when you fall in love, constriction when you are in a fearful situation etc. This is all as a result of the brain doing its thing. Claiming this is a soul then the soul must be responsible for a women getting moist and a man getting an erection when they kiss and fondle. It is all the brain working and instincts at work. Folk were obviously aware of this and could not explain it other than some invisible entity that exists inside the body. I am sure with early anatomy they searched for this and found nothing but a pump.
If it is not religion how then are we supposed to do it? Meditate? Why should I enter into an altered state on mind (the brain working again) to connect with god? The human is not "designed" to be anything other than fully alert when awake for survival from predators (in terms of the hunter gatherer) We know now was causes the heart to beat faster when in danger, it is called adrenalin, the good feelings caused by endorphins etc. These all work pretty fine w/o some invisible god or soul.
Religion merely gives a mechanism to connect to a non existent god, it willingly or unwittingly uses the brain's nuances to trick people into belief, the goosebump anointing, the fear etc. Once the primordial instinct has been tapped into, then any suggestion can be taken as truth, the natural instinctive aspects have been hijacked and then you are psyched up and ready to charge into battle w/o a care in the world be it proselytizing or killing you opponent. The normal emotion of fear to survive is switched off and you then enter into a state of a zombie. I experienced this as an 18 yo in the army when at that age, my natural instincts was to find a mate and deal with the hormones in my body. It works, most at 18 yo are not violent and are not politically motivated. This kill skill has to be taught and the hate for the enemy instilled as a fear, they call it discipline and with it comes the group think, obeying orders, believing your sergeant is godlike and has more wisdom even though he is a mere two years older than you. Of course the church uses the exact same tactics maybe with a little more subtlety but it taps into the same mechanisms.
Politicians do it, pastors do it, musicians do it. You create the right environment and people can be manipulated to do anything.
So once you have come to realise what it is that causes the effect, you can set up your own defense mechanisms to oppose it. That in essence is where I am at.
Any form of god connectivity will require, I lower my defenses, check in my logic and then allow myself to be manipulated. Even reading a book could cause this.
Having achieved a level of contentment, there is no need or space that a god or other mythical character needs to fill. I killed the bogyman.
Your version of god can meet me where I am at, an in-person appearance and nothing less. Face to face in front of at least two witnesses, while I am sober and awake.
Can't do it? Well then he/she/it does not deserve the time of day from me.
Yours is a familiar and common journey and outcome, Seeker . . . and I am not trying to alter it. My purpose at my age and stage of life is to relate what I have learned and experienced (it is called witnessing) . . . and others can do with it what they will. Peace.
We love to see things firsthand. To prove phenomena in an absolute sense with factual data. Is this a by product of linear thinking which gives us thoughts such as "if there is a beginning, there must be an end" or causes us to ponder "which came first, the chicken or the egg"? I find it interesting that within this logical state of mind, we still have so many superstitions that affect us daily. I know some seemingly logical people that still don't walk under ladders to try to avoid bad luck, who have daily rituals that they don't alter for fear of a negative result and who turn off the lights in a lightning storm for fear of being a greater conduit to the electricity in the air. I'm sure some believe in God and some don't.
Pitting faith in God with science is an obvious example of pitting facts against faith. But it seems this phenomena is a part of our daily lives. For me, ultimately having children was a somewhat mystical decision as my logic seemed to push me away from having them. I had thoughts, likely typical ones, such as "They are too expensive or my house is too small" and "How will I pay for college?" and "They will reduce the sex I have with my wife" and "Why would I want to bring them into this crazy world" for example. In the face of overwhelming logic, I had them anyway. Simple biology? Perhaps...but I think it was that I wanted to experience certain joys many parents had talked about but really couldn't explain. In short, a sort of magical thing that comes with parenting. I think many of us act on impulse and do things based on a feeling we have with little or no factual basis for doing so.
Perhaps this is why I live my life believing the possibility of divine energy and why I read this thread with intrigue not trying to determine whether there is a god or not but to merely compare where people are coming from. I have long ago given up trying to answer the "why are we here?" question. I no longer look for a definitive answer. In my experience, many of the answers I get only lead to more questions. Life itself is a mystery and IMO, regardless of science is still full of the unknown. And you know what? I like it that way.
As an Atheist I have always been utterly puzzled by the fact that one thing which seems to bind all religions is this need for prayers, rituals and other flim-flammery.
Suspending all disbelief for a minute and assuming there is indeed a supreme creator, a maker of all which is within our Universe,be they planets, stars, asteroids, single cell organisms, humans, flora, fauna etc... basically an omnipotent ,omniscient supernatural being why would this creature/being need and require us to accept his/her presence and worship him /her ?
Why the need for elaborate rituals, scriptures, why is it so important to this amazing creature beyond compare of such potency that he/she can wipe out an entire planet with simply the merest click of his fingers ?
What does it matter to this creature whether we even acknowledge it exists at all ?
Why do we need to go down on one knee and pray to something we cannot see and has no physical entity?
Why all the mind games ?
Is this God so needy and so arrogant that he/she needs constant reassurance and adulation ?
How does adoration of this creator actually enrich the human experience ?
Why should all this frippery of ritualisation and worship be important to someone so powerful and so wise ?
Wise people in my experience do not want to be worshipped, do not expect it and certainly will not punish those who do not.
Only despots and tyrants expect this level of constant adulation and like God seem to thrive on instilling the terror of death and pain on the little ants we all are.
I could just about get to grasp with the concept of a creator. Just. But all the accoutrements of religion , from commandments to scriptures, religious rituals, prayers seem to me to put it mildly petty and rather pointless.
Why is God not content with human beings who are decent, kind and morally upright, people who no matter what their faith ( or lack of thereof ) contribute in a positive manner to this universe he/she created ?
I simply cannot comprehend the concept that a supreme creator would actually need or want us to waste time worshipping him/her when our times would be better utilised becoming better people in a practical manner.
Where is the logic in prayer ? God is really that insecure that he/she needs to feel loved and revered ? That to me sounds utterly bizarre unless God is a human being with very low self esteem and a bullying streak...
We need to constantly abase ourselves to please him/her ? We need to never question his/her desires for his creation ?
All I see is mind games at best and I do remain puzzled.
To me the very fact that we have rituals and religious flim-flammery in so many different shades and colours around the world indicates that if there is a creator we have created those rituals to make ourselves feel more secure somehow, regaining a modicum of power over this creature. And as such all those rituals could be discarded easily by believers.
Trying to appease the beast so to speak. Humans are so afraid of God that they need to cloak everything in bizarre traditions and rituals. There is nothing more human to me as an Anthropologist than rituals. We all need them and we all have them be they religious or not. They make us feel more in control of a situation we usually have no control of.
But with religion we seem to go to extremes and seem to want and influence something which seems already pre-ordained and that we have no control of ultimately with petty little puzzling gestures.
Basically why would God need our prayers, our worship, our stunning sacred buildings and artefacts ... why do so many people feel that a deity of such power need such pointless and petty things to be appeased.
And why does someone like God need to be appeased in the first place ?
Only humans could be that arrogant and thus God was created rather than the other way around.
I remain bemused.
Religion is another form of mind control. All life forms (humans, animals, insects, bacteria, etc) and non-life forms(rock, mountains, etc) are all manifestations of God. I believe God is raw energy which can be utilize for anything. The reason for religion is the human need to identify the unknown. The basic questions of a human are: Who am I (beneath the human flesh)? Where was I before being born? What is my purpose? What happens when I die? Religion in one way or another tries to satisy humanity's anxiety by creating a dogma. (you are the son/daughther of God, you are here to fulfill God's will, if you're good then heaven awaits but if you're bad then hell awaits). In my opinion, this planet was visited by an advanced race who created religion as a way to control us. (no, i am not a conspiracy nut) In the Old Testament, there is a passage that states that giants mated with earth women. Also, it will explain how we advanced so much in math, science, technology, etc. The God that is presented in the OT and NT sounds like an emperor than a loving God. He is jeolous, wrathful, and full of contraditions.
Religion is another form of mind control. All life forms (humans, animals, insects, bacteria, etc) and non-life forms(rock, mountains, etc) are all manifestations of God. I believe God is raw energy which can be utilize for anything. The reason for religion is the human need to identify the unknown. The basic questions of a human are: Who am I (beneath the human flesh)? Where was I before being born? What is my purpose? What happens when I die? Religion in one way or another tries to satisy humanity's anxiety by creating a dogma. (you are the son/daughther of God, you are here to fulfill God's will, if you're good then heaven awaits but if you're bad then hell awaits). In my opinion, this planet was visited by an advanced race who created religion as a way to control us. (no, i am not a conspiracy nut) In the Old Testament, there is a passage that states that giants mated with earth women. Also, it will explain how we advanced so much in math, science, technology, etc. The God that is presented in the OT and NT sounds like an emperor than a loving God. He is jeolous, wrathful, and full of contraditions.
Yes. It is the Illuminati / Lizard People and they created a race of Superhumans. Right? Isn't that part of the Law of Attraction theory?
Yes. It is the Illuminati / Lizard People and they created a race of Superhumans. Right? Isn't that part of the Law of Attraction theory?
No. I don't believe in the lizard people or David icke's crapola. If you look at the pyramids and Egyptian hieroglyphic, the extinction of the Neanderthal and the fast evolution of Homo sapiens, the advanced civilization of the Sumerian, etc. You have to wonder if someone didn't visit Earth during the infancy of the homo species.
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Scientific logic versus faith
