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Old 08-22-2008, 01:39 PM
 
286 posts, read 804,852 times
Reputation: 100

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For those of you who are not familiar with it, it goes:

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:03 PM
 
756 posts, read 1,883,099 times
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I've been presenting the same logic for years.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:50 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,236,701 times
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoi
Quote:
Then why call Him God?
Because we were raised believing that our parents, or rather our culture, can solve every problem instead of realising that it is part of the problem.
We are raised believing that our future is feasible and that nothing can stop 'progress'.
God, the future and (manifest) destiny are just ways to avoid our own responsibilities in life.
We generally only want the choice but not the responsibility.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:24 PM
 
244 posts, read 393,280 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoi
Then why call Him God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Because we were raised believing that our parents, or rather our culture, can solve every problem instead of realising that it is part of the problem.
So you think we should call him God even though he's neither able nor willing to prevent evil, because we were raised believing our culture can solve every problem?

That doesn't strike me as a good reason.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:35 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,236,701 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Cirbryn
Quote:
So you think we should call him God even though he's neither able nor willing to prevent evil, because we were raised believing our culture can solve every problem?
Does it matter what I believe?
I can only accept that I am unlike the majority of society, because people often call me crazy simply because I do not share their opinion.

Besidez, what makes you believe that I have a choice?
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Old 08-22-2008, 04:11 PM
 
286 posts, read 804,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
God, the future and (manifest) destiny are just ways to avoid our own responsibilities in life.
We generally only want the choice but not the responsibility.
Too true...
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Old 08-22-2008, 04:58 PM
 
745 posts, read 1,297,738 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoi View Post
For those of you who are not familiar with it, it goes:

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?
I responded to this post in another thread, so it may be a bit out of context:
The best way on this Earth that I have found to understand my relationship with God, it to look at my relationship to my young children. I will respond in those terms:
Though I am not omnipotent, I do exercise a great deal of power in my childrens' lives. I allow them to make bad decisions, not because I lack the will or power to stop them, but because they cannot learn and progress by me simply responding yes or no to every request. They would never mature. I do not consider this malevolent. Periodically, a situation may exist that requires my intervention; this would be a miracle.
I would not be doing my job as a father if I took either extreme: intervening continuously, or withdrawing completely.
Your post reminds me of the old omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent.
As far as death, which seems to be the prevailing theme in these types of discussions, I think some perspective will assuage our fears and our pain. Just like that piece of candy my 4 year old begged, even prayed for, in the end he will realize it's not all that important. Perhaps God sees death the same way, not a burden, but an opportunity to reunite with us, perhaps even serve a practical purpose for the bereft.
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,864,840 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoi View Post
For those of you who are not familiar with it, it goes:

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?

Take the same riddle and apply it to your highschool teacher or your college professor.

This is a school for the gods, we are here to learn and pass tests. If the answers and solutions are done for us, how much do we really learn.

God is not a cheater. We are here to learn to stand.

Shall God chew our food for us?

Should he puppet our bodies for us?

Should he wipe our arses?

He gave us all the tools to do things for ourselves, the good and the bad.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:39 AM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,940,988 times
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I think that people take the suffering approach in a far too positive light. Whats the 2 year old boy with leukemia got to learn from it? How is a person born with fibrodysplasia ossificans progresiva supposed to find comfort in being told that god works in mysterious ways?

The simple truth which I've stated before is that very often suffering wont make us into better people but rather cripple us physically and psychologically
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Old 08-23-2008, 06:09 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,236,701 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin
Quote:
The simple truth which I've stated before is that very often suffering wont make us into better people but rather cripple us physically and psychologically
If this is true it would mean that life and not death is crippling.
Life = being vulnerable = suffering.
Only the dead do not suffer, simply because they aren't alive.
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