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How are converts to Judaism seen in the context of what you have posted?
As far as prophesy goes, IMO this applies to the Jews of yore and not the modern Jew. If I were to convert and "return" to Israel, am I really a returning Jew? I read your link of ascending and descending and that is a whole different kettle of fish IMO.
Furthermore the demographics are really complex in differentiating those born outside of Israel and those born in Israel., could you perhaps expand on this in your own words.
I believe God can & does change His mind. IMO, Scripture backs this up.
...and scripture backs up that he doesn't change his mind.
Numbers 23:19. “God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?”
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
As far as prophesy goes, IMO this applies to the Jews of yore and not the modern Jew.
Precisely.... the present day nation of Israel is not the Old Testament nation of Israel... it is the Old Testament nation of Judah. The Old Testament nation of Israel does not and can never exist anymore... they were destroyed by and assimilated into Assyria. And that is why Campbell's silly prophecy will never come to pass...because the "Jews of yore" no longer exist.
...and scripture backs up that he doesn't change his mind.
Numbers 23:19. “God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?”
Concerning your other posts, viz technology, that is probably true but I really doubt if all Jews did return, the economy could support them. Furthermore as you stated, it confirms the stats I posted re migration. I do try and find Jewish sites when looking up stats.
I am not a malthusian, for the most part. I believe skilled labor is an asset. In the short run, of course, the Jews of the US are not balanced enough in skills. What would Israel do with so many lawyers, accountants, and teachers, almost none of who speak Hebrew? If they migrate over time, the skill mix issue could be dealt with.
The most pressing resource issue would be water. Im a fan of large scale desalination using solar for energy, if it should come to that.
How are converts to Judaism seen in the context of what you have posted?
As far as prophesy goes, IMO this applies to the Jews of yore and not the modern Jew. If I were to convert and "return" to Israel, am I really a returning Jew? I read your link of ascending and descending and that is a whole different kettle of fish IMO.
Furthermore the demographics are really complex in differentiating those born outside of Israel and those born in Israel., could you perhaps expand on this in your own words.
Thanks
As far as the state of Israel is concerned, a converted Jew is a Jew. WITHIN Israel only Orthodox rabbis can do conversions - outside Israel others can, per the Supreme court of Israel, though some folks in the Interior Ministry try to create road blocks to folks converted by C or R rabbis in the diaspora - this is something of a hot issue.
As for the prophesy, no problem. The Jewish tradition says that a convert to Judaism really has a Jewish soul, that by accident somehow got caught in a gentile body. When a jew is called to the torah, he is called by his patronym David ben Moshe for example (david the son of moshe). A convert whose hebrew name is david would be David ben Avraham - all converts are considered the children of Abraham and Sarah. Tradition says that all Jews living and dead, were mystically present at Sinai to accept the covenant - this applies to converts as well.
This is why the Zionists want to expand to get their hands on their neighbor's resources..
this is absolutely untrue. The debate in Israel is whether to keep some or all of the West bank, or to give almost all of it to the Pals. NO ONE is suggesting taking anything else. And the rationales for keeping the west bank involve either security or religion - there are NO important natural resources there (other than water - and Israel could afford to buy water from the Pals if it came to that - the water issue is probably one of the easier ones in peace talks)
As far as prophesy goes, IMO this applies to the Jews of yore and not the modern Jew. If I were to convert and "return" to Israel, am I really a returning Jew? I read your link of ascending and descending and that is a whole different kettle of fish IMO.
Furthermore the demographics are really complex in differentiating those born outside of Israel and those born in Israel., could you perhaps expand on this in your own words.
Thanks
ascending = making aliya = migrating to israel - descending=yerida=emigrating from Israel those are the terms we use (and which existed before the Zionist movement, btw)
Originally Posted by Rafius;18681102Precisely.... the present day nation of Israel is not the Old Testament nation of Israel... it is the Old Testament nation of Judah. The Old Testament nation of Israel does not and can never exist anymore... they were destroyed by and assimilated into Assyria. And that is why Campbell's silly prophecy will never come to pass...because the [I
"Jews of yore"[/i] no longer exist.
In the hebrew bible "israel" sometimes refers to the northern kingdom, but other times refers to ALL the descendants of Jacob - the bnai Israel, or children of Israel. Its not clear how the terminology evolved exactly.
And of course its widely held by historians that SOME people from the northern kingdom fled to Judah, which is why we have northern kingdom history and traditions in the Hebrew bible. So yes, todays Jews probably do have SOME northern kingdom ancestry. I mean its not like there was some kind of berlin wall between the two kingdoms.
Furthermore the demographics are really complex in differentiating those born outside of Israel and those born in Israel., could you perhaps expand on this in your own words.
Thanks
I am not sure what you mean? Do you mean people who are born in the FSU, migrate to Israel, and then emigrate (say to the US) I would imagine they are counted both with immigrants AND emigrants, though naturally not in the same year mostly.
So what you are saying is that we have a contradiction.
I do like this bit though.....
"Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them."
So much for the god of 'love' eh?
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