U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 04-05-2011, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,470,891 times
Reputation: 1406

Advertisements

I was having a discussion with a pro-choice friend of mine on Sunday, and he thought all of the people opposed to abortion were doing so because of their religious beliefs.

I said that I can understand how a person could logically believe that killing a healthy fetus is wrong, and it would not matter what their religious beliefs are.

He did not agree with me whatsoever. He insisted people opposed abortion only because of their religion.

So what do you think? Do some non-believers also oppose abortion?

As for myself, I am an atheist and I think abortion is fine unless the fetus is so fully developed that it could live outside the mother's womb without unusual help. In other words, aborting a 3-month fetus is OK. Aborting an 8-month fetus is not OK.
Rate this post positively

 
Old 04-05-2011, 09:05 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,750,712 times
Reputation: 1788
Only the religious tend to have an agenda to force their supposed morals and ethics on others. The godless, have a personal opinion but you would not really find them protesting with the woos or killing abortion doctors and bombing clinics.

Even your personal opinion, which I happen to agree with, you are not going to try and legislate it are you?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-05-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Earth, Milky Way
290 posts, read 365,274 times
Reputation: 128
I am not religious.
I am not a supporter of abortion.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-06-2011, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Da Region
1,906 posts, read 1,476,874 times
Reputation: 24834
I am in a position to know people of many faiths, and people of none. While most people I know are pro-choice (but not necessarily pro-abortion), I know a few people who are both anti-abortion and not "of faith." They just believe children have potential and should be given the chance to fulfill that potential. There's nothing religious about it to them.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-06-2011, 01:14 AM
 
8,368 posts, read 4,778,761 times
Reputation: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I was having a discussion with a pro-choice friend of mine on Sunday, and he thought all of the people opposed to abortion were doing so because of their religious beliefs.

I said that I can understand how a person could logically believe that killing a healthy fetus is wrong, and it would not matter what their religious beliefs are.

He did not agree with me whatsoever. He insisted people opposed abortion only because of their religion.

So what do you think? Do some non-believers also oppose abortion?

As for myself, I am an atheist and I think abortion is fine unless the fetus is so fully developed that it could live outside the mother's womb without unusual help. In other words, aborting a 3-month fetus is OK. Aborting an 8-month fetus is not OK.
I'm not "religious" at all. MOF...IMO this world would be greatly improved without "religion".

But I am opposed to abortion. That 8 month fetus...is the VERY SAME fetus as it was at 3 months...just more developed. And it's the same entity that will leave the mothers body...and will be just as helpless and "non-selfsufficient/nonviable" at that "stage of life" as it was in her body...MOF it will require MORE effort/resources to sustain/maintain him/her at that point. And it's the SAME ENTITY when he/she is 1yr old, 5yrs old, 13, 18, 21, 30, 50, 65, 100, or at any point until he/she no longer lives. And, IMO, at ANY point after conception deserves the same rights one would feel anyone should have.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-06-2011, 01:24 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 5,794,607 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Do some non-believers also oppose abortion?
Quite a few yes. One of the "big four" famous atheists at the moment, Christopher Hitchens, is probably the most well known example of atheists against abortion I can think of, but there are a good number out there. I would love to debate him on the issue however, as his sole reason I have heard him give for being anti-abortion is linguistic in nature, and he would be the first to tell you that just because we have words for certain things, that this does not impart moral truth to the object in question. His reasoning on the issue is, from what little I have heard so far, highly flawed.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-06-2011, 01:31 AM
 
5 posts, read 7,751 times
Reputation: 12
Check out this site- A feminist group against abortion who I personally think is way cool.

[url=http://www.feministsforlife.org/news/commonw.htm]Untitled Document[/url]
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-06-2011, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
33,157 posts, read 54,366,246 times
Reputation: 23637
I see nothing 'wrong' with abortion.

Our church doctrine is not anti-abortion.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-06-2011, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,470,891 times
Reputation: 1406
Thank you all very much for your answers. I will tell my friend that there are definitely some non-religious people who are against abortion.

Seeker, I thought you had a good point that religious people seem more inclined to push their views on others, and that may be why it seems that all people against abortion are religious. Is there much of an anti-abortion movement in South Africa where you live?
Rate this post positively
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:25 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,750,712 times
Reputation: 1788
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Seeker, I thought you had a good point that religious people seem more inclined to push their views on others, and that may be why it seems that all people against abortion are religious. Is there much of an anti-abortion movement in South Africa where you live?
If there are, they get no press. Abortion here is legal.

Initially when it became legal, in the cities there were billboards all over the place advertising the services but now meh, you see and hear nothing.

Here is a link and snippet
The Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act was passed in 1997 in South Africa, providing abortion on demand for a variety of cases.
Any woman of any age can get an abortion, if she is less than 13 weeks pregnant.

If she is between 13 and 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion if:
  • Her own physical or mental health is at stake
  • The baby will have severe mental or physical abnormalities
  • She is pregnant because of incest
  • She is pregnant because of rape, or
  • She is of the personal opinion that her economic or social situation is sufficient reason for the termination of pregnancy.
If she is more than 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion only if her or the fetus' life is in danger or there are likely to be serious birth defects.

A woman under the age of 18 will be advised to consult her parents, but she can also decide not to inform or consult them. A woman who is married or in a life-partner relationship will be advised to consult her partner, but again she can decide not to inform or consult him/her.

Exceptions
An exception is that if the woman is severely mentally ill or has been unconscious for a long time, consent of a life-partner (only if male), parent or legal guardian is required.

Who performs abortions?
In general, only medical doctors may perform abortions. Nurses who have received special training may also perform abortions up to the 12th week of pregnancy.

Health workers do not have to perform or take active part in an abortion if they do not wish to. However, in terms of the law they must assist a procedure if it is necessary to save the life of a patient, even if the emergency is related to an abortion.

A health worker who is asked to perform an abortion may choose not to. But health workers are obligated by law to inform a woman of her rights and refer her to another health worker or facility where she can get the abortion.

Can one get counselling?
Most abortion centres will insist on providing pre- and post-abortion counselling, and the woman can legally demand it. However, it is not a legal requirement that abortion centres provide it. Counselling can be provided by clinics or private counselors.

How much will it cost?
Abortions are free at certain state hospitals or clinics, although sometimes only if the woman is referred by a health worker. If one goes through one's own private doctor or a private hospital, there will be fees.
That said, in the town I stay in we have only one high school, my daugeter graduated there last year and the previous year there were 7 matriculants with child sitting the final exams.

Then of course, one can get condoms at the school too. This is more in the fight against AIDS. Girls can get free BCP at the clinics, not sure what is required but the age of consent in SA is 16.

No one here is holding a gun to their heads suggesting they get an abortion.
Invalidated amendment act of 2005

In 2005, the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Act[7] was passed by Parliament. In terms of the amendment:
  • clinics offering a 24-hour maternity service need no longer obtain special approval to conduct abortions;
  • clinics conducting abortions are required to keep and submit certain statistics;
  • registered nurses who have completed special training may also conduct abortions (previously only doctors and midwives were allowed to conduct abortions).
The amendment was challenged in the Constitutional Court by Doctors For Life International on the basis that inadequate public participation had preceded it.[8] In August 2006 the Constitutional Court declared that the amendment was indeed unconstitutional on those grounds, but suspended the invalidation for 18 months during which time Parliament would have to ensure proper public involvement.[9]
The bit above was the last challenge the right to lifers won here.

There really is not a big issue with it and I only found this one link from 2007 from the pro lifers.

CHRISTIANS PROTEST 10 YEARS OF ABORTION IN SOUTH AFRICA
Rate this post positively
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.



All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top