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Ah,the key word is challenging then,rather than merely more intellectual.I guess if you define this as needing to do more reading and studying on what you are supposed to think and believe,then maybe.I would also consider having to find ways to dismiss the science you aren't supposed to believe in quite an intellectual challenge as well.
Nobody tells me what to belive or think. I still have free will and exercise it regularly. In fact, if one studies the Bible in it's original languages, God expects us to examine the evidence that He exists and decide to believe based upon that evidence. That's the definition of the Greek word usually translated as "faith." Sadly, a lot of people don't know that because they haven't studied the scriptures in depth. They think faith simply means believing for no reason other than you're supposed to.
And, I don't spend any time studying science in an effort to refute it. When I do study science, it's to learn, not to reject. You see, personally, I see little reason to think science and creation are mutually exclusive and I believe the earth, and mankind, have been here far longer than most believers purport to know. Evolution is an established fact, so trying to make scripture fit the notion that it's not is just foolish, to me, and is nothing more than junk "science" in the name of God. I see no reason to not to think that God said, "Let there be a Big Bang," do you?
Nobody tells me what to belive or think. I still have free will and exercise it regularly. In fact, if one studies the Bible in it's original languages, God expects us to examine the evidence that He exists and decide to believe based upon that evidence. That's the definition of the Greek word usually translated as "faith." Sadly, a lot of people don't know that because they haven't studied the scriptures in depth. They think faith simply means believing for no reason other than you're supposed to.
And, I don't spend any time studying science in an effort to refute it. When I do study science, it's to learn, not to reject. You see, personally, I see little reason to think science and creation are mutually exclusive and I believe the earth, and mankind, have been here far longer than most believers purport to know. Evolution is an established fact, so trying to make scripture fit the notion that it's not is just foolish, to me, and is nothing more than junk "science" in the name of God. I see no reason to not to think that God said, "Let there be a Big Bang," do you?
No,I don't think that at all.That may well be what happened.The energy that must have been around preceding the Big Bang may well be the energy of God.
But I am trying to establish in this thread why a God that is claimed wants our worship (for whatever reason God would crave having humans fawn over and grovel before Him),and requires faith in Him and His Son for salvation chooses to pretty well hide any real evidence of His existence.
No,I don't think that at all.That may well be what happened.The energy that must have been around preceding the Big Bang may well be the energy of God.
But I am trying to establish in this thread why a God that is claimed wants our worship (for whatever reason God would crave having humans fawn over and grovel before Him),and requires faith in Him and His Son for salvation chooses to pretty well hide any real evidence of His existence.
What evidence would you like him to display?
This is not a trick question or a smart remark as it strikes to the root of your question. What evidence WOULD be proof?
This is not a trick question or a smart remark as it strikes to the root of your question. What evidence WOULD be proof?
It could be done in lots of ways.Carl Sagan posits a coded message in the decimal value of pi in his book Contact.If He hated homosexuality as is claimed,He could cause a 100' tall tsunami to rear up over SanFran,pause at the highest point before receding back down,and then announce over every electronic media that next year this same time the wave will be allowed to crash,so everyone be gone.And then do it.Have a prophet announce that on a certain day the moon will turn and show it's backside for one day and then spin back around to the normal side the next day.Have a prophet announce that on a certain day the Sun will stop at noon for 5 hours,and then start back on it's normal course.I mean,really,is there no way you can think of for God to make His presence obvious?Have Christians live 20 years longer than non Christians.Have Christians bodies not decay for a month without any treating.(The Eastern Orthodox actually believe that saints don't decay,which is where I got this)
Maybe he gives you credit for being intelligent and just wants you seek him out, even though his 'face' has been before you from your beginning. There is evidence of his presence and love surrounding us. Take a really good look at the flawless design of the Universe, the solar system, the planet, the circle of life, and finally the wonderous marvel that is called human being.
Have a prophet announce that on a certain day the Sun will stop at noon for 5 hours,and then start back on it's normal course.
Your standards are too low for me; I'd need a lot more than you would apparently to be certain of God's existence.
But, the one I quoted is one where the Christians will try to get you. Of course, you and I won't take the word of the Bible that it happened, but the believers will say the sun already froze in its place and still you do not believe.
Quote:
12Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. 13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. 14And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel (Joshua 10:12-14).
Referencing that same "event", it is written in Habakkuk 3:11
Quote:
The sun and moon stood still in the sky as your brilliant arrows flew and your glittering spear flashed.
Well, heck, I read all that stuff too, but it has no bearing on my belief in God. I imagine it doesn't for you either.
The point is that having faith that God exists, and having committed to following Him, I've got studying to do; things to learn, concepts to grasp. As an atheist, you don't. Having decided not to believe, you're done.
Time a wasting, as you are wasting your time chasing a fantasy. I have much better things to do.
I used to ask the same question but honestly I think God does make His/Her presence known very well. It's just a matter of us opening our eyes. And it doesn't take that much effort--all you have to do is breathe, feel your body, feel your presence, and the rest comes through so clear.
I used to ask the same question but honestly I think God does make His/Her presence known very well. It's just a matter of us opening our eyes. And it doesn't take that much effort--all you have to do is breathe, feel your body, feel your presence, and the rest comes through so clear.
Sorry, I have my eyes open right now, I am breathing, I can feel my body and my presence.. but.. no god is talking to me or anything. Next?
Sorry, I have my eyes open right now, I am breathing, I can feel my body and my presence.. but.. no god is talking to me or anything. Next?
I meant it on more than just the physical level, and not just literally with opening your eyes and feeling your body.
Meditate. Feel your energy flow. Feel the energy of the things around you. That's the only way I know how to put it.
If you can't feel it, you can't feel it. But if you are open to feeling universal energy, you can with time feel it through meditation. Even if you can't feel it directly, you can feel it through the effects it has on your life, health, and emotional well-being.
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