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I don't need to prove to myself that a god exists to ask myself these questions or have the discussion. If you do, that's fine. Personally, I don't think there is a god, but I also don't discount the possibility so the discussion is still of interest to me.
Oh, so you want to discuss the intrinsic qualities and motivations of some as-yet-unsubstantiated deity, about whom we have no evidence and no knowledge. That's like saying "Hey, there's an earth-like planet somewhere across the galaxy. We can't see it, we can't prove it's there, and we know nothing about it, but lets all discuss why the people that evolved there like to wear pink cotton-candy hats on Sunday, instead of wearing neon green bubble-gum shoes on Wednesday!"
Uh...right.
No, first we have to establish that there's an earthlike planet there, before we can discuss any of the other details. Until then, it's all fantasy and only exists in the mind of the person imagining it.
Lifer, maybe the problem, though, could be in the question itself. Maybe, if there's a god, that god does NOT require worship or belief. Maybe, since god has NOT made godself obvious to many of us, a more fruitful question to ask oneself would be what, if anything, does that god want? For myself, I'm content that my purpose here (yep, an atheist with a purpose ) is to love others, to help when needed and when possible, and to do no harm in the process if at all possible. If there is a god, and that god is worthy of worship, then loving others is going to be all the worship said god desires, imho. And if god exists, I also believe that it is in loving others that that god will be found (though i'm not expecting that).
I have considered this many times.The question though was more directed at those who hold the idea that God demands our belief and our worship.
But to address your point,I have read those that suggest that God blew Himself into pieces at the Big Bang for the purpose of experiencing existence as "not being God".In this scenario God had,and still has,no clue how things will develop.Matter was created with no specific intention on how it would turn out.Earth,humans,etc would have been a surprise to God.In this theory every bit of matter is a sensory conduit back to the part of God that remained intact,for lack of a better word,to act as the Experiencer.Some matter,such as animals,develop the ability to experience existence as life.In this idea,we humans are bits of God with amnesia.
This also answers the perennial question of the existence of evil.If God is all that is,and is just about experiencing all manner of experiences,then the issue of evil on the grand scale goes away.It doesn't on the micro scale of human existence,but it does on the ultimate stage,since God is also the victim of any evil as part of the desire to experience existence.
Just a thought,albeit a mind blowing one for those who think God is the great Father in the Sky
No, first we have to establish that there's an earthlike planet there, before we can discuss any of the other details. Until then, it's all fantasy and only exists in the mind of the person imagining it.
Not so.Theoretical physicists theorize about the details of multiverses all the time.Why would you limit theological theorizing when more of this goes on in theoretical physics than anything else?Have YOU any proof of parallel universes.and if not,should the scientists who study and theorize about them just shut up and go back to something productive like nuclear fusion?
I posed this to another poster in another thread and got nothing but a sarcastic "what do you want,Jesus to come hold your hand?Sounds like a personal problem to me" response.Hopefully an adult will do better.
This isn't about bashing God.I am not an atheist.I am simply asking,if we are required to believe in and worship God,why doesn't He make His presence undeniable?Seems like a reasonable proposition.You require worship and belief,make your presence beyond doubt.
I'll deal with 2 possible answers and get them out of the way now so we can deal with the others and not waste time on ones that don't answer the question.
First,He is not beyond doubt,and the atheists just stubbornly refuse to admit it.Nobody doubts obvious things.Nobody denies the existence of the Sun,the moon,gravity,inertia,etc.Obvious things are.......obvious.Since many people don't believe in God on the basis there is no proof,to claim that He is obvious beyond doubt is silly.
Second,the appeal to nature.The "just look at a flowers or the stars" argument.Evolution has shown that these things evolved into being.Whether or not God is the spark at the very beginning is irrelevant to this question,since the question is the obviousness of God.God starting the spark that created the universe billions of years ago is not making Himself obvious today.
So,any better answers than the one I got from the other poster?Why need faith that God exists?Why not solid evidence that precludes needing faith in things unseen?
I came to two basic conclusions about god a while ago:
1. there is no god
2. god wants us to go it alone... life is basically a "hands off" learning experience.
Evolution is related to the origin of the species, not life itself, and abiogenesis has not yet come to any conclusion about WHY proteins and nucleic acids suddenly become "living." They may be able to replicate things in a petri dish, but they can't explain why it happens.
Better yet, they can't explain why it happened orginially, back in the dawn of creation, without any fancy laboratory equipment. But, it obviously did happen, didn't it?
Not so.Theoretical physicists theorize about the details of multiverses all the time.Why would you limit theological theorizing when more of this goes on in theoretical physics than anything else?Have YOU any proof of parallel universes.and if not,should the scientists who study and theorize about them just shut up and go back to something productive like nuclear fusion?
Because scientific advances and theories have nothing to do with religion. Science builds on previous knowledge, either by proving or disproving it. In fact, disproving something can be more informative than proving something.
When theoretical physicists do what they do, they are not ignoring all the science and evidence that has come before. Rather they are taking hints and bits and pieces of things we do know, and trying to puzzle them together in some order that can be tested, and which makes some sort of sense.
On the other hand, you have humans that have invented gods by simply pulling them out of their collective asses, for which proof has been sought for millenia and never discovered for ANY deity. Bit of a difference there.
No, first we have to establish that there's an earthlike planet there, before we can discuss any of the other details. Until then, it's all fantasy and only exists in the mind of the person imagining it.
If that's how you want to approach it, that's fine with me. I think it's worthwhile to discuss hypotheticals and I'm not sure why it would be a problem for you if others wish to do so.
I have considered this many times.The question though was more directed at those who hold the idea that God demands our belief and our worship.
But to address your point,I have read those that suggest that God blew Himself into pieces at the Big Bang for the purpose of experiencing existence as "not being God".In this scenario God had,and still has,no clue how things will develop.Matter was created with no specific intention on how it would turn out.Earth,humans,etc would have been a surprise to God.In this theory every bit of matter is a sensory conduit back to the part of God that remained intact,for lack of a better word,to act as the Experiencer.Some matter,such as animals,develop the ability to experience existence as life.In this idea,we humans are bits of God with amnesia.
This also answers the perennial question of the existence of evil.If God is all that is,and is just about experiencing all manner of experiences,then the issue of evil on the grand scale goes away.It doesn't on the micro scale of human existence,but it does on the ultimate stage,since God is also the victim of any evil as part of the desire to experience existence.
Just a thought,albeit a mind blowing one for those who think God is the great Father in the Sky
I've read something along the same lines. Only instead of the "blew himself apart" thoery, it was explained along the lines of a person who conceives of a story line and characters in their mind. That story and characters aren't outside of the person and it is the person themselves experiencing what is in their mind.
But, still, it's the same basic idea as what you presented: "all bits of God with amnesia". It is a mindblowing concept. [But in the author scenario, the "Father" bit isn't as far off the mark.]
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) is to love others, to help when needed and when possible, and to do no harm in the process if at all possible. If there is a god, and that god is worthy of worship, then loving others is going to be all the worship said god desires, imho. And if god exists, I also believe that it is in loving others that that god will be found (though i'm not expecting that).
