OK theists, school me on logical absolutes (AKA, Calvinist - you out there?)

[hooligan]

Originally Posted by tigetmax24

...I do try to be candid and honest. If you can provide a LOGICAL REASON as to why I should acknowledge your assertion (that it has nothing to do with morality) , I'll acknowledge it. Until such time - well, like I said, you're splitting hairs.

You want me to provide a "logical reason" for logical absolutes and moral absolutes not being the same thing? Honestly?

Logic:

1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

Moral:

1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.

Please explain to me how these two concepts ARE connected. I simply don't see it.

[tigetmax24]

Originally Posted by hooligan

You want me to provide a "logical reason" for logical absolutes and moral absolutes not being the same thing? Honestly?

Logic :

1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

Moral :

1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.

Please explain to me how these two concepts ARE connected. I simply don't see it.

They are connected by the word "absolute." If you recall my answer to the OP in Post #3, a logical or moral absolute has to do with concepts that are transcendent. Anytime you infer an absolute (logical or moral) you infer transcendence - a concept that is above and beyond a relative concept.

If you object so vociferously to my linking of the two (moral and logical absolutes) together, why didn't you make it known back when I first posted?

[hooligan]

Back on topic: Does anyone out there have anything to add to the discussion about logical absolutes providing evidence of an intelligent creator?

Originally Posted by hooligan

Back on topic: Does anyone out there have anything to add to the discussion about logical absolutes providing evidence of an intelligent creator?

Nope: Nothing more than statements similar to this:

If there are Transcendent Linguistic Laws then there is a Transcendent Linguist.

[hooligan]

That's all I've gotten so far, too, Shiloh.

transcendent:

1. exceeding or surpassing in degree or excellence

2. a.(in the philosophy of Kant) beyond or before experience; a priori b.(of a concept) falling outside a given set of categories c.beyond consciousness or direct apprehension

3. theol (of God) having continuous existence outside the created world

4. free from the limitations inherent in matter

So, for the purposes of our discussion, we can throw out #3 as it assumes the existence of a "God". So the gist of the argument is that if something is either "beyond consciousness or direct apprehension" or "free from the limitations inherent in matter" that is evidence of an intelligent creator. Is that about it?

Well, logical absolutes are not beyond consciousness nor do I necessarily think they are "free from the limitations inherent in matter". At least, not any moreso than any other idea.


Here is a link to an article arguing for logical absolutes as proof of an intelligent creator:

https://school.carm.org/amember/file.../absolutes.htm


Here is a link to the opposing argument:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:On_Logical_Absolutes