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I see your point, mythunderstood, but I disagree somewhat. Your lack of belief in either A or B makes you more agnostic, than atheist. By definition an atheist would subscribe to claim B.
Prefix a- indicates against or lack of. A-theist would indicate the condition of belief that there is no deity. From the Greek A+Theos.
I am an agnostic. An agnostic atheist to be precise. Or are you confusing agnosticism with "belief"? Agnosticism does not address "belief", it addresses "knowledge". On the spectrum of belief, there are only 2 choices. You either have a belief in god, or you don't. There is no fence sitting. Let's say someone asked you the question "do you believe in god."? If you cannot answer affirmatively "yes, I believe in god", then you are by definition an atheist in regards to belief. You still can claim that you do not "know" whether or not god exists (agnostic), but you additionally would currently be without a belief in one (atheist). That doesn't mean that you don't think gods are "possible", just that you do not currently actively believe in any particular god. All agnostics either have a belief in god (theist/deist) or they don't (atheist). You don't have to choose to be an atheist, or purposely claim the title of atheist, to be one by definition.
Agnosticism does not say "I don't know if I believe in a god." It says "I believe that god cannot be known". All agnostics still either have a belief in god or not despite their understanding that gods cannot be known. Agnostic theists/deists believe in god despite acknowledging that gods cannot be known. That is why they call it “faith”. Whereas, agnostic atheists acknowledge that gods cannot be known and therefore withhold belief in any until such time as they are presented with any convincing evidence which would make them believe in one.
Sure, there are atheists that are gnostic (rather than agnostic), who claim (to know) that god does not in fact, exist. Such a person would have to have specific knowledge in order to make or prove such a claim. However, the labels of atheism/theism do not address knowledge but rather the presence or absence of a belief in god.
Suppose you never heard of gonbies. Since you never heard of them, you haven't formed any opinions about them one way or the other. You "lack" a belief in gonbies, right? Because you have never heard of them. Said another way, you don't have a belief in gonbies. It is not that you believe gonbies don't exist; you have never heard of gonbies, remember. You neither believe they do exist or believe they don't exist or disbelieve in gonbies; you just don't have a belief in gonbies.
Similarly, there are some people who don't have a belief in god. Or, said another way, they lack a belief in god. That is different from actively believing there is no god. People who don't have a belief in god, are considered to be atheists by some people; I prefer to use the term nontheist to refer to them.
I am an atheist who does not believe there is a god, but I acknowledge that there might be one because no one can prove there is no god. I just don't think there is one. This of course is different from those atheists who positively declare that gods do not exist and deny the possibility that there might be a god.
Agnostic has nothing to do with whether one is uncertain about god's existence. An agnostic declares that it is impossible to know for sure whether or not there is a god. I hold that position as well, which makes me an agnostic. So, I am both agnostic and atheist.
Suppose you never heard of gonbies. Since you never heard of them, you haven't formed any opinions about them one way or the other. You "lack" a belief in gonbies, right? Because you have never heard of them. Said another way, you don't have a belief in gonbies. It is not that you believe gonbies don't exist; you have never heard of gonbies, remember. You neither believe they do exist or believe they don't exist or disbelieve in gonbies; you just don't have a belief in gonbies.
Similarly, there are some people who don't have a belief in god. Or, said another way, they lack a belief in god. That is different from actively believing there is no god. People who don't have a belief in god, are considered to be atheists by some people; I prefer to use the term nontheist to refer to them.
I am an atheist who does not believe there is a god, but I acknowledge that there might be one because no one can prove there is no god. I just don't think there is one. This of course is different from those atheists who positively declare that gods do not exist and deny the possibility that there might be a god.
Agnostic has nothing to do with whether one is uncertain about god's existence. An agnostic declares that it is impossible to know for sure whether or not there is a god. I hold that position as well, which makes me an agnostic. So, I am both agnostic and atheist.
I see what you are saying but the diffrence is atheists have heard of God and after hearing of God they automaticly have an opinion as to wether or not God exists. Let me ask all the atheists on here, do you believe in the existence of God?? If you say no, than you still have formed a belief, a belief that God dosnt exist. Or, are you nuetral and have no beleifs either way???? { which in my opinion is pretty much impossible }
If you have heard of God{s} then certainly you have an opinion as to wether or not they exist and thus, you have a belief.
Location: Somewhere in the Eastern Seaboard.......
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So, why don't you like atheists?
I personally do not hate atheists, or any one with different beliefs for that matter. But mainstream christian society has portrayed our belief system as strict and our way being the only way of thinking. In actuality is not the case at all, in my personal opinion as long as a person tries to do the right thing, moral, honest, and loving; it really shouldn't matter if they believe in god or not because at the end of the day a good person is a good person regardless of their faith.
I personally do not hate atheists, or any one with different beliefs for that matter. But mainstream christian society has portrayed our belief system as strict and our way being the only way of thinking. In actuality is not the case at all, in my personal opinion as long as a person tries to do the right thing, moral, honest, and loving; it really shouldn't matter if they believe in god or not because at the end of the day a good person is a good person regardless of their faith.
Atheists don't have "beliefs", we accept facts and realities. Believers delude themselves with fables of eternal life because they are too cowardly, yes, cowardly, to face the fact of their limited life on earth, and that is all she wrote, so to speak. You are so terrified by your ending that you fabricate a life eternal.
If you espoused Love, and honesty and the good parts of religion without all the "saved" crappola, it would be different, but you all seem to be so arrogantly selfish because everything is oriented towards getting your E ticket to heaven - so selfish and cowardly.
We do not automatically come to an opinion about god's existence. In my case I was raised a Catholic and educated in Catholic schools...Right from the start I was a curious person, and so asked a lot of questions about the Catholic beliefs which were rarely ever answered to my satisfaction. The really tough question always elicited a response like these..."It's a mystery"or God works in mysterious ways. So I began my own research into the history and origins of the Catholic church and at that time I also read and studied the bible.
Reading the bible convinced me that the Christian religion was all invented by people. After that I studied many other beliefs, and after a time decided that they are all bogus, so, no there was nothing automatic about my non belief...
Once again, no matter how you want non belief to be a belief, it is not....It is the opposite. I really don't know why this matters so much to you.
I believe that many, if not most atheists have a story very similar to mine
Ok, so would it be a fair assumption to say that you do not "believe" in the existance of God
If you answered yes, then would it be fair to say that you "believe" that God dosnt exist
I get what you are trying to say, but the only way your logic works is if you do not beleive in either the existance of God, or the non-existance of God which is clearly not the case in your situation judging by the content of your last post.
Now, pretend somone grew up on a desrted island and had no knowledge whatsoever of the outside world. The only knowledge they have is that of what is on the island and the waters that surround it. This person could be said to have no beliefs whatsoever about the existance of god because the prospect of one has never entered their mind
For an example, lets use crank-start water heaters. Maybe they exist, maybe they dont. { they dont, I just now made the term up in my head } Before reading this post, it could be said that you had no beleifs on crank-start water heaters as to wether they exist or not, because before now, you have never heard the term.. But, now that you have heard the term crank-start water heater, you have formed a beleif. You either beleive that they exist, OR, you beleive that they infact do not exist. Either way, you have a belief.
I, like you, dont know why what I am trying to say to you is so hard for you to understand.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 06-05-2011 at 03:21 PM..
Country Boy Posted: .... a good person is a good person regardless of their faith.
How would you fit the ancient Aztecs with their particular brand of faith and sincerity and their trying to do the right thing in this?
Obviously their brand of faith involved the capture and murder of thousands as human sacrifices to their god. So it seems to me that the type of faith a person has can definitely make a huge difference. Or am, I misunderstanding you in some way?
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I give up..
