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Well, I don't know what their agenda is but the ones I read don't seem to have one. Otherwise, I would certainly be suspect of what they taught.
I have looked at many sources. Here are two on the web that were pretty complete, I thought. You can see for yourself if you like.
Exmormon.net
Carm.org
I beg to differ. Both of those sites are run by Evangelicals who clearly do not believe Mormonism is true. They are no more impartial than I am. For example, exmormon.com, has a link called "shocking" that covers only "part of the outrage," and encourages the reader to go on to learn even more supposedly damning evidence about Mormons.
Though I do not believe matters of faith can be answered through reason alone, an honest truth seeker should not be criticized for studying both sides of an issue. To that end, I would encourage you to add the following Website to your list.
The official Church Websites, LDS.org and Mormon.org, are also good sources, but will not as directly confront the accusations that some make against the LDS church.
I think the only questions I have about the Book of Mormon relates to scripture in the Bible. Look what the scripture says below, where does this leave the Book of Mormon?
Revelation 22:18-19
18 And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.
As far as Joseph Smith goes, from what I understand.. Some of his prophecies did not come true. (correct me if I am wrong)
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
"But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.
However, I am just saying what I have found in research. I am curious about all religions and ask questions so I can be more knowledgeable.
I think the only questions I have about the Book of Mormon relates to scripture in the Bible. Look what the scripture says below, where does this leave the Book of Mormon?
Revelation 22:18-19
18 And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.
As far as Joseph Smith goes, from what I understand.. Some of his prophecies did not come true. (correct me if I am wrong)
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
"But you may wonder, ‘How will we know whether or not a prophecy is from the Lord?’ 22 If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared.
However, I am just saying what I have found in research. I am curious about all religions and ask questions so I can be more knowledgeable.
Some of his prophecies have not occurred, but he didn't say when they would occur. All Christians are waiting for some of the ancient prophecies to come true. Armageddon has not come to pass, but that doesn’t make John a false prophet.
I can tell you that Joseph Smith predicted the Civil War and stated it would begin with the rebellion of South Carolina. If you remember your history, you will remember that South Carolina was the first state to leave the Union. I have included the Section from the Doctrine and Covenants where this is found. You will note this section was written in 1832, 29 years before the war began.
He also warned of the dangers of tobacco and alcohol use. Today, we of course know he was right. This is why LDS members do not drink or smoke.
SECTION 87
Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. HC 1: 301–302. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.
1–4, War foretold between the Northern States and the Southern States; 5–8, Great calamities shall fall upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls
people who keep bringing up the passage in the' Book of Revelation'keep leaving out the fact that when it was written it was a 'book',there was no collection of 'books' bound together as one that we now know as the 'Bible'.since the bom doesnt 'add' anything to the 'book of revelation' and since the passage clearly refers to the book of revelation itself since it was a seperate book at the time it has no relavence pro or con to the bom or any other book.i am not lds,not really anything,but i have read a fair amount of the bom,the pearl of great price and the d&c and dont see why anyone would find anything demonic inspired about it.i dont see where lds theology is all that different then other christian theology.i dont know if God appered to joseph smith or not but i do know to believe in any religion requires you to believe in many incredible things.people have no trouble believing in noah's ark,the virgin birth and the ressurection but think God talking to some guy in new york in 1830 something is the craziest thing they ever heard.many things in the bible arent provable either,you accept them on faith. you believe joseph smith or you dont,if you do there are several branches of lds faith besides the utah based church,whose beliefs vary somewhat from the utah based church.everyone should keep an open mind and at least learn about what different people actually believe.many people who talk the loudest against the mormans dont seem to know much about their actual theology.
[quote=SergeantL;1222913]Some of his prophecies have not occurred, but he didn't say when they would occur. All Christians are waiting for some of the ancient prophecies to come true. Armageddon has not come to pass, but that doesn’t make John a false prophet.
Joseph Smith was also interested in the second coming of Jesus Christ. So much so, that he tried to peg Christ’s return to a particular year – 1891. Smith said, “It is the will of the Lord that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was night – even fifty-six years, should wind up the scene.” (The History of the Church, vol II, page 182). Zion here refers to Jackson County, Missouri – not to Israel. Given the context in which this was said, the fifty-six year time frame would place the return of Jesus on or before February 14, 1891.
Some of his prophecies have not occurred, but he didn't say when they would occur. All Christians are waiting for some of the ancient prophecies to come true. Armageddon has not come to pass, but that doesn’t make John a false prophet.
Joseph Smith was also interested in the second coming of Jesus Christ. So much so, that he tried to peg Christ’s return to a particular year – 1891. Smith said, “It is the will of the Lord that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was night – even fifty-six years, should wind up the scene.” (The History of the Church, vol II, page 182). Zion here refers to Jackson County, Missouri – not to Israel. Given the context in which this was said, the fifty-six year time frame would place the return of Jesus on or before February 14, 1891.
I see you have been busy with the anti sites, so let me refer you to this site:
It does a better job of explaining the full context of Joseph's meaning regarding the return of Christ.
Next, the great leaders of the Church after the murder of Joseph came from the group that Joseph mentions in the above passage; however, this was not a prophecy. The passage you quote is from the history of the Church but it is not canon. It was Joseph the man talking. If it were a prophecy, it would be in the Doctrine and Covenants. Joseph may have in fact believed the Second Coming was imminent; however, his estimate was pure conjecture. Understand that Joseph was well aware of the fact that no one other than God knows the time for Christ’s return.
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
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In the parable of the vineyard owner and the tenant farmers, Jesus stated that after the owner had sent all his servants (the Prophets - with a capital P), the vineyard owner had only one other person to send--his son (Jesus). This parable implies that the vineyard owner had no intention of hiring more servants, so he sent his son as his last resort. If no other servants were going to be hired, that means God was not going to send other Prophets.
Therefore, I will reject any "Prophet" who came after Jesus, whether it be Mohammed, Joseph Smith, the Pope (papal infallibility), the Dalai Lama, Ellen White, Nostradamus, various yogis, Edgar Cayce, the Central Figures of Baha'i, Bobby Henderson (prophet for the Flying Spaghetti Monster), etc.
I will also reject any teaching that denies the infallibility of the Bible. If the Bible is corrupt, then I wish the adherents of this teaching would provide us with a correct one so we know which parts are true and which aren't. However, I've never seen anyone step forward and provide an "accurate" translation; instead, they prefer to use the corrupted version so they can choose to ignore whatever is convenient.
Last edited by Blueberry; 08-07-2007 at 02:13 AM..
Reason: added a thought
I find it interesting that people accuse the Book of Mormon of being Demonic in its origins, when they have never even attempted to read it. That's like looking at a food, and claiming it's disgusting, but never trying it. People should know for themselves, before they judge it.
Let's use this comparison. A person loves apple pie, their entire lives. One day, someone this person knows, gives them an apple pie, and it makes them terrible ill, they are sick for days. So now, this person who once loved apple pie, starts boycotting it, going all over the internet, saying how disgusting it is, telling people they should never eat it, never even try it. People who have never tried apple pie, start reading this anti-apple pie information, and they can do one of two things. They can judge for themselves, and actually try apple pie, OR, they can just avoid it, and believe the negative things they hear about it, because people are saying it's disgusting, and it will make them ill.
That situation can be compared to an anti or bitter ex Mormon. They were once happy being mormons (eating apple pie), and then somebody comes along one day in the church, and offends them (makes them a pie, which causes them to be ill). So then the person who became ill, competely goes against the church (goes off apple pie), just because of that one experience, one mistake from someone they know. Then that person becomes more and more bitter, and starts to speak out against the entire organization of the church (against eating any sort of apple pie), and starts writing anti-mormon (anti-apple pie) literature. That person may even switch to cherry pie (another religion) because it sits better with them after that one bad experience with the LDS church. Or, they might even start making up their own recipies (relgious rules) to suit the lifestyle they want to live.
So are we going to be the people who just take bitter or unlearned people's word for it, and just avoid the LDS church (apple pie) altogether because of something we heard? Or should we actually see for ourselves? Because apple pie can be really tasty, and trust me.... I've tried a lot of different pies in my life. I like the Mormon one the best.
You can't judge this Mormon pie, until you have tried a piece of the pie (studied the book of mormon). The book of Mormon is just a piece of the Mormon religion. If you like it, you can go ahead and eat the whole pie. If not... I guess you wont be trying any piece of apple pie (the LDS church) again, anytime soon.
That situation can be compared to an anti or bitter ex Mormon. They were once happy being mormons (eating apple pie), and then somebody comes along one day in the church, and offends them (makes them a pie, which causes them to be ill). So then the person who became ill, competely goes against the church (goes off apple pie), just because of that one experience, one mistake from someone they know.
(bolding mine)
I know a lot of ex-Mormons, but I honestly don't know anyone who has left the church because they were offended. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not the usual reason. (It occurs to me that perhaps Mormons think this is the reason most people leave the church because those who do leave because they were offended are the most likely to return to the church and so Mormons hear lots of stories about people who left because they were offended.)
To stick with your pie analogy, in my experience ex-Mormons become ex-Mormons because
a) they discover that although the pie tastes delicious and looks delicious, it is not what it appears to be and in fact contains a disgusting and harmful ingredient which can make you sick if you keep eating it;
b) they never really liked apple pie, but since everyone around them was saying it was delicious and wonderful and the best thing ever, they felt like they should like it, so they pretended to and convinced themself they did;
c) one day they had a piece of blueberry pie and discovered it was even more delicious.
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