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Old 01-12-2012, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Yes SuperSoul, you did a very good job analyzing that nonsense written by TIllich.

Does anyone know what Tillich meant by "theologican theism"?

How would it differ from 'non-theologican theism'?
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I don't have any hostility toward organized religions, so I don't like to say they "are full of it".

My disbelief in a god is probably very much like your disbelief in the flying spaghetti monster.
Please... imagine me getting on 2 knees & begging you...
Please please pretty please with sugar, syrup, your favorite chocolate & a cherry on top... DEFINE GOD.
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Yes, SuperSoul, I agree with that as far as it goes, but fortunately that isn't the only choice I have. If God can be defined any way one wants, doesn't that cast doubt upon the entire concept?
What concept do you mean?
Are you defining the concept of God to be UNIVERSAL... unchanging, perfect & lacking any potential?
Well, if this is what you mean (& please clarify if otherwise)...
Then no, it does not cast doubt on the concept of God, but actually sustains it.

Aristotle taught that everything has a cause & effect... except for the "Prime Move" (aka God) who started this whole universe ball rolling...
The ONLY way that God could remain perfect (lacking potential) & unchanging... is through ATTRACTION.
What is it that draws us to continue living?
Attraction... to air we breath, to food we eat, to people we love, to passions we pursue...
Quote:
It makes the definitions ultimately meaningless if there is no standard agreed-upon definition. Everyone who believes is talking about something different.
That's why God being defined as the "ultimate concern" is universally applicable to billions of people, each completely unique & different.
Also, as mentioned, this definition is healthier than religious orthodox definitions of a God of hatred, fear & shame...
God, as "Ultimate Concern" is more in line with reality & encourages people to consider what is it that they truly worship.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:03 PM
 
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What ever creation is, universe, multiverse, whatever...if it is an extension or reflection of some "thing" ...that thing could not possibly have an individualism similar to man. Mans individualistic thought ability is a waste of time in attempts to attach properties to this thing people call God

The approach is off. The thing would be an event relative to human thinking, not something with personality, needs and the rest of it.

The theist notion..IMO God is Love, is simply an attempt to suggest this thing, is not impervious toward mans individual or ultimate quest for order out of yes...disorder... The question is more like is it supreme(mans initiative, will towards order ect) to a potential in disorder and if so...the origin of its intention(the good man) should have supremacy over dis-order....thats the deal .....Also ,God or whatever should be evolved relative to mans thinking by now... to an event

Last edited by Blue Hue; 01-12-2012 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,895,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Please... imagine me getting on 2 knees & begging you...
Please please pretty please with sugar, syrup, your favorite chocolate & a cherry on top... DEFINE GOD.
OK, I'm not great with words, but I will give it a shot.

A god is a conscious, supernatural being that has the power to change things in our universe. A god can bypass the normal physical laws and do whatever it wants.

Yeah, I think that's about it.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Hue View Post
What ever creation is, universe, multiverse, whatever...if it is an extension or reflection of some "thing" ...that thing could not possibly have an individualism similar to man. Mans individualistic thought ability is a waste of time in attempts to attach properties to this thing people call God

The approach is off. The thing would be an event relative to human thinking, not something with personality, needs and the rest of it.

The theist notion..IMO God is Love, is simply an attempt to suggest this thing, is not impervious toward mans individual or ultimate quest for order out of yes...disorder... The question is more like is it supreme(mans initiative, will towards order ect) to a potential in disorder and if so...the origin of its intention(the good man) should have supremacy over dis-order....thats the deal .....Also ,God or whatever should be evolved relative to mans thinking by now... to an event
Good point, if I understood correctly.
This idea of order and disorder needing each other still boggles my mind.
It seems that God (truth/love) is full of paradoxes or opposites...
Life is good, but without death, we wouldn't appreciate life.
We need illusion for emotional crutches, yet illusion also prevents us from seeing truth & being free to make the best "ultimate" choices.
We need some consistency (order -even if it's the illusion of consistent order) & tend to cling to that which doesn't change, yet only dead things never change.

Yet, as mentioned, as more truths are learned, we are more free because we realize the options, unlike before, when we were blinded.
I also agree that God cannot be defined as just one thing... that's like saying ALL TRUTH is... whatever limiting definition is given to to God.

Please clarify if I misunderstood you, BlueHue.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:08 AM
 
2,468 posts, read 3,131,842 times
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Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
OK, I'm not great with words, but I will give it a shot.

A god is a conscious, supernatural being that has the power to change things in our universe. A god can bypass the normal physical laws and do whatever it wants.

Yeah, I think that's about it.
Hiker,
Thanks for answering my plea.
So, to you, God is one single conscious (aware) being above natural laws.
How do you know if God is not many conscious beings? Why just one?
Is God disorder, since God is above laws?

How does God apply to you, Hiker, if at all?
When you were young, what inspired you most & what inspires you now?
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,612 posts, read 4,895,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Hiker,
Thanks for answering my plea.
So, to you, God is one single conscious (aware) being above natural laws.
How do you know if God is not many conscious beings? Why just one?
I did not mean to imply there may be only one god. That's why I used the term "a god" so it would apply to all of them if more than one exists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
Is God disorder, since God is above laws?
Yeah, I think that is true for people who believe in gods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
How does God apply to you, Hiker, if at all?
I am a lifelong Atheist, so gods don't apply to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
When you were young, what inspired you most & what inspires you now?
I can't remember feeling inspired when I was young, except I recall being very happy when I was 11. Now at the age of 66, I am the happiest I have ever been. I feel good, our family is doing well, the world is beautiful, and I enjoy being alive.

Someone recently asked me what my 'bucket list' is. I said it is to fully appreciate every day of life that I have.
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:01 PM
 
2,468 posts, read 3,131,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I did not mean to imply there may be only one god. That's why I used the term "a god" so it would apply to all of them if more than one exists.

Yeah, I think that is true for people who believe in gods.
Thanks for clarifying that.

Quote:
I am a lifelong Atheist, so gods don't apply to me.
You mean, gods defined by other people don't apply to you.
You do have gods... whatever is most important to you... whatever you worship in time, energy, thought & feeling is your god (just called something else).

Quote:
I can't remember feeling inspired when I was young, except I recall being very happy when I was 11. Now at the age of 66, I am the happiest I have ever been. I feel good, our family is doing well, the world is beautiful, and I enjoy being alive.

Someone recently asked me what my 'bucket list' is. I said it is to fully appreciate every day of life that I have.

I'm glad you're doing so well.
Some though, aren't so fortunate... & IMO, much of it is because they have the wrong god (or wrong ultimate concern) with addictions or otherwise "lookin' for love in all the wrong places."
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 4,283,360 times
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I was raised in the traditional Christian way (more or less), and attended a wide variety of churches in my youth and young adulthood. Ultimately, I left the organized church in search of truth. I embarked on many (or maybe just one long) spiritual journeys and explorations. I think that none of the organized religions as we know them have it right. There are to many attempts to ascribe human-like features and qualities to this thing we call God, or gods.

God is a universal underlying energy, present in all things. It contains order and chaos, harmony and dissonance, creation and destruction. It is the source of all things, including the physical world and the laws of science, as well as spiritual energy which we humans can access. It is not an old man in the sky, although if there is such a thing he certainly came from this universal energy, as did we all.

I apologize if this seems incoherent; I have never tried to define it as I have never found the need to do so. Plus I'm on my mobile, which adds some challenges to thoughtful posting.
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