Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-25-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
27 posts, read 34,793 times
Reputation: 17

Advertisements

God has said in the Quran:

Those who have disbelieved and died in disbelief, the earth full of gold would not be accepted from any of them if one offered it as a ransom. They will have a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers. (Quran, 3:91)


A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the Quran
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-25-2012, 05:00 PM
 
2,770 posts, read 2,604,192 times
Reputation: 3048
John 3:16-17
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2012, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Philippines
460 posts, read 593,115 times
Reputation: 221
I feel that when Mohammed examined the philosophies of the Judaic and Christian religions that he believed something was missing. Even though the Semite peoples that divided themselves up into various religions, including forms of Judaism, there was a lack of unity among people that basically shared the same DNA.

What was missing?

In my opinion, what was missing was the same question that pagan followers were asking, which caused them to start turning to Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, and others. But all these mainstream religions started transforming into forms of "ME-ism," and the relationship between people and between oneself and a God went to pot.

Mohammed looked upon the political and religious landscape and saw both opportunity and a dilapilated "house." It seems that he tried to combine the best of Christianity and Judaism and adding a heavy dose of Arabian culture and mythology. But, unfortunately, he ended up with a hybrid that is no better than the worse tenets of Judaism and Christianity.

One of those borrowings is the twisted and non-theologically defendable notions of hellfire.

There is nearly 6,000 years of documentation available to the world regarding the notion of death and an underworld. Yet, it has only been roughly 700 years when Christianity decided to adopt Dante's fanciful view of the cosmos as a tenet of the Absolute truth.

Jahannam, which is the term Islam uses for hellfire, clearly has roots in its own culture, influenced by pagan beliefs in an afterlife, characterized by seven "hells," each higher number being more horrible than the lower number.

And like its counterpart in mainstream Christianity, Jahannam is used as a means of control. To think, act, or even believe outside this tenet is to invite the God's wrath and a "forever and ever" sentence of condemnation. This is simply a mechanism of fear. "You had better believe this way--our way--or you will be forever damned."

Such superstitious "chains" of mental, spiritual, and oftentimes physical retardation are clearly lamentable. It is not enough to just proclaim that Jahannam or Sheol or Hell do not exist. It has to be demonstrated that these mythological conventions obstruct mankind's growth and progression with fellow human beings and with one's perception of God.

1. God is indefinable. No one knows what God "looks" like or what God expects.

2. Description of God via the scriptures of any kind are manmade, man-inspired, and man constructs of philosophy to help better the human race.

3. A God who lays out a "do-it-this-way-or-else" agenda on an unsuspecting world of human beings is a very small God indeed.

a. Every single human being starts this "game" of life in a different position, with a unique set of skills and inabilities. This is not like a Monopoly game where everyone has the same amount of cash and starts from the same starting point.

b. Every human being is not equal. For such a God to be believed or even have the small chance of being an actual existing being, we have to expect that evey human being has an equal chance of "winning" this game of life.

c. There is a saying: "Set-up to fail." And this kind of God has, in essence, set up life as a "set-up to fail." No one can win.

d. This kind of God is not worthy of even being noticed.

4. A God who sets up a cosmology of salvation and damnation is also a very small god indeed.

a. In Plato's description of the cosmos, wherein he delineates the various stages or spheres of "existence," from the Most High where the Gods reign in near-total ignorance (apathy, perhaps?) of what is happening on the Earth to the lowest depths of an underworld full of one's worst nightmares, was accepted in the early Church, such as St. Augustine, as an apt description of reality. What is lamentable is the fact that this mythological concept permeates religious doctrine and thinking to this very day.

b. On one hand we have the strong message of "God loves us." On the other hand, we have the strong message of "God will punish us." Dividing the passages of just the Bible alone between the two dichotomous poles, one can see that it depends on the writer. In most cases, a writer is either for the "love" or for the "punish," with rarely addressing both at the same time.

c. So, we have this God who has apparently predestined a large segment of humanity to everlasting destruction and only a handful to sit in the choir lofts of heaven, forever singing nonsensical songs of praise. This is a God who delights in souls being tormented forever while being entertained with refrains of "Thank you for saving ME!" everlastingly.

d. Balderdash! This is not a God that one should pay any attention to.

5. What is conveniently ignored is the original Jewish concept of Gahenna. Once Christianity took root and borrowed heavily from Judaism symbology as well as a geneology, and then influenced big-time from Hellenic thought, Gahenna seemed ripe as a divine revelation of hell being a "real" place.

a. Gahenna was a pit of burning rubbish. It was constantly on fire, and I understand that recent archaeological digs have discovered it, and it is still smoldering.

b. Gahenna was regarded in the same way that being eaten by crocodiles was by the Egyptians. No after life. Poof! Every bit of existence is destroyed.

c. Gahenna was where the most heinous people were often disposed of.

d. The admonition to fear the God who could destroy both the body and the soul was indirectly linked to the fate of those thrown into the Gahenna. One isn't just toast. One is destroyed forever and ever without even the luxury of being toasted for eternity.

e. This God, too, isn't worth my time.

6. A real God is one that is a part of the space-time continuum that we understand as an apt description of the cosmos-universe today. A God that is acting in, participating in, and is a part of us.

a. This God isn't concerned with the saving of ME. All of humanity has been saved. From what? Just the thought of having to come back to this living "hell" is enough for me. For what? We can fantasize all we want about what the next world or existence will be like, but that's not why we are "here."

b. This God really could care less about what happens in the world. Why? Because it really isn't important. We kill ourselves off, God shrugs. We create a perfect world, God shrugs. What is of concern is the "after" glow of going through this life.

c. This God cares about how we treat each other. The popular "I love you God" hymns and the "Thank you for saving Me" ballads miss the entire point of what this God wants and desires. Why don't we have songs like "I revel in the joy of other people." "Thank you for giving me to other people." And the like.

d. This God expects that we humans change the world, not the other way around. We expect God to do something, like the Greek/Roman concept of deus ex machina. We managed to turn that concept around, too, much to our own detriment.

e. The God is in us all. All we have to do is look at each other to see God, to talk to God, to use God to move mountains and level valleys. "Whatever you have done to them . . . " speaks volumes as to where God is and, really, who God is.

f. This is a God one can sit up and pay attention to. This is a God that is at once forgiving and loving, and the so-called punishment that returns to us because of our own making is a part of that God process as well. "What comes around, goes around." "Whatever you throw out to the universe will come back tenfold."

Bottom line: We worry about the wrong things, such as the afterlife. Our business is people, as Marley told / warned Scrooge. But like most of us, we read this as just being a part of a good story without realizing the wisdom and the answer to life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2012, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,917,890 times
Reputation: 3767
Default Don't miss out.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Moderator cut: Orphaned response

(the secret to a fulfilling and enjoyable guilt-free life is to get yourself straight, understand your own spirituality (not someone else's ideas of a mandated and disciplined Godly training session) and get on with it. It's quite a short life after all, and it's all there is!

Last edited by june 7th; 03-29-2012 at 08:00 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-25-2012, 08:50 PM
 
2,770 posts, read 2,604,192 times
Reputation: 3048
Whatever lie help's you sleep at night^^^
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-26-2012, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,815,703 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by NON44NON View Post
God has said in the Quran:

Those who have disbelieved and died in disbelief, the earth full of gold would not be accepted from any of them if one offered it as a ransom. They will have a painful punishment, and they will have no helpers. (Quran, 3:91)


A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the Quran
I know I just make up random rules for my kids, hide them among various books and competing claims, then kick them out into the world, never see them and mercilessly torture them at the end if don't figure out what I want them to do, so this makes total sense to me!

I am also loving and benevolent too, because I just said so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
27 posts, read 34,793 times
Reputation: 17
Thank you for your participation

Any way, what if you died then you found that God has a Paradise and the fire what's your stand?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2012, 07:09 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
You forgot to quote the arrows pointing up at what Rifle and Ilene said.
Oh, we all know it was intended to unsettle the unbelievers, but the point is that it implies that you get to sleep at night secure in the knowledge that, whoever is going to roast for eternity, it isn't going to be you.

Presumably the possibility that the OP might be right and all non - muslims (which includes you ) are heading for an eternity of pain doesn't come to bother you in the small hours.

You must have such absolute confidence that you are right and the muslims are wrong that it is simply for you not worth thinking about.

Similarly, for myself, Rifle and agnostic Ilene, the hellfire - threat is utterly unbelievable and we have no doubts on that score. So we sleep sound at night, too....says he typing this at two in the morning
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2012, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,536,243 times
Reputation: 11994
This topic is just another reason why Christianty has a bad name.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,896,363 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Salvation from Hellfire


Salvation lies within..... within the mind that is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:26 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top