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The so-called Obama Care Program is not like Canada's, it is like Switzerlands. People need to read up on Switzerland's heath care system. Here is a start: http://open.salon.com/blog/steve_blevins/2009/08/23/switzerland_inside_the_worlds_finest_health_care_s ystem (http://http://open.salon.com/blog/steve_blevins/2009/08/23/switzerland_inside_the_worlds_finest_health_care_s ystem - broken link)
"playing"? Is that how you look at a serious matter such as sex? Thats exactly whats wrong with the mentality of people now-a-days. Your pregnant? Meh..... go ahead and just get an abortion, it's ok to take an innocent life. Before you get your feathers ruffled I should mention that I'm pro-choice, but also think the issue of abortion is a serious one and should not be made light of. To tell the youth that "it's ok if you are promiscuous, you can just get an abortion" is sending the complete wrong message and downplays the seriousness of abortion and sex itself. As far as "paying to play" yes, there should absolutely be consequences to ones irresponsible and wreckless decisions.
This is why teen pregnancy rates go up, not down, because of the availability of abortion. Before the fact, they think "I can just get an abortion if I get pregnant" but then it happens and they find it's not so easy to make that decison.
Also, many women's lives are decimated by the decision to abort. Just go to the Project Rachel website and read some of the anguish these women have gone through. What looks like an easy way out can haunt them the rest of their lives. I had a friend in high school this happened to. If I weren't already pro life I would have become pro life the day she called me, drunk on her arse and all she could say was "Today is the day the would be baby should have been born.". The decision to abort destroyed her life. Once she crossed her due date, she could no longer deny it was a baby she ordered destroyed that day. Years later, I sat with her while her daughter went through heart surgery while she paced and muttered that this was God's punishment on her for the baby she killed. Every August (would have been her birth month for the would be baby, as she called it) she spent drunk. That one decision ruined her life in way having that baby never could have.
This is most certainly not play and I agree that it is a problem that people think this way. We're not playing here. This is a decision you make for life either way and you have to live with the fallout either way. The problem isn't that there is a consequence to your actions. It's thinking there shouldn't be consequences to your actions. Sex is serious. The purpose of sex is procreation. You should not be shocked when you get pregnant. Abortion doesn't undo that you got pregnant. It just makes you the mother of a dead baby. There IS a consequence either way you go here once you get pregnant. You can't undo it. There will be fallout. It's treating sex like there should be no consequences that is the issue.
"The number of post-abortive women that report chronic episodes of depression: 44%, drug use: 19%, promiscuous activity: 43%, alcohol abuse: 60%, miscarriage: 2-3 times higher risk for those who have had two or more abortions. These rates are far above the general population."
For many women, if the stats above are to be believed, abortion is not to be equated with self respect or empowerment. If another medical procedure had these stats, it would be banned or at least rationed only to people who had been screened beforehand to determine if they can handle it.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 04-08-2012 at 05:19 AM..
No, pro life is valuing life. Pregnancy is a temporary condition. All you have to do to get un pregnant is wait 9 months. You don't have to keep the baby, you don't have to raise the baby, you don't have to care about the baby. Abortion punishes the baby with its life. What does it say about a culture that kills it's own children in the most vulnerable stage of their lives? What does it say when you prey upon the weak just because you're bigger and stronger and can? I'm pro life because I believe life has value. Plain and simple. I'm very much pro woman. I don't have to be pro abortion to be pro woman. I can be both pro life and pro woman.
Either life has value or it doesn't. There is no middle ground here. All of us were once like the embryos and fetuses what will be terminated today. We don't matter more because our moms let us have our lives....at least we shoudln't but we're self centered to the point that we'll kill another human being just for being inconvenient to us. What does that say about our culture? I believe that the people who have worked hard and have themselves a good amount of money from it have a right to buy more cars than others, more clothes and nicer homes than others. You can look around and say, see my wealth, in all areas except when it comes to life and health care, IMO.
It's gross to look around at others saying "see, I can afford to live through my cancer" "I make more than you and can afford to live." "My child can afford to live through an infection, because I earned that right by making more money than you." That is what we are saying in America, this is what our system represents.
Health care isn't a material trophy for those who've earned it. Life should be a right, all life. Either life has value or it doesn't, there is no middle ground here.
Personally, I think we should solve this once and for all by sterilizing every child then setting a legal age for parenthood at which the procedure can be undone at government expense. This would be much cheaper than our current welfare system but it's too big brotherish to ever happen.
I'm thinking you are being sarcastic here, at least I am hoping that is the case. lol
It's what I'm telling myself anyway.
Do you understand the science behind horny teens? If you are a theist do you understand the plan God had when he created horny teens?
Why do you think humans are still here, the drive is intentional. It might not fit the plan you have but it has it's purpose and will work despite. You aren't going to stop anyone from having sex, controlling desire won't work, birth control will. Unfortunately most birth control involves aborting shortly after conception. It would half to be a condom if it's up to the RC.
I'm thinking you are being sarcastic here, at least I am hoping that is the case. lol It's what I'm telling myself anyway.
Do you understand the science behind horny teens? If you are a theist do you understand the plan God had when he created horny teens?
Why do you think humans are still here, the drive is intentional. It might not fit the plan you have but it has it's purpose and will work despite. You aren't going to stop anyone from having sex, controlling desire won't work, birth control will. Unfortunately most birth control involves aborting shortly after conception. It would half to be a condom if it's up to the RC.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Sadly, we would benefit if someone would protect us from ourselves, however, each and every one of us has the right to screw their life up any way they wish. What boggles my mind is they then think someone else should help them out of the mess they made.
I do understand the science behind horny teens. That still doesn't make sex something you should take lightly or expect no consequences from partaking in. You act like we should just excuse irresponsibility because of hormones. Yes, mother nature wants young people reproducing. THAT is what sex is for after all.
Why begrudge anyone what they worked for and earned? It's theirs not mine. People like Bill Gates owe me nothing. I'm the one who has to take care of myself. I really don't care what the rich have. It's theirs to enjoy, show off, whatever they choose to do with it. They don't owe me anything. The way our tax code is structured, they pay more than their share as it is.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Sadly, we would benefit if someone would protect us from ourselves, however, each and every one of us has the right to screw their life up any way they wish. What boggles my mind is they then think someone else should help them out of the mess they made.
I do understand the science behind horny teens. That still doesn't make sex something you should take lightly or expect no consequences from partaking in. You act like we should just excuse irresponsibility because of hormones. Yes, mother nature wants young people reproducing. THAT is what sex is for after all.
Why begrudge anyone what they worked for and earned? It's theirs not mine. People like Bill Gates owe me nothing. I'm the one who has to take care of myself. I really don't care what the rich have. It's theirs to enjoy, show off, whatever they choose to do with it. They don't owe me anything. The way our tax code is structured, they pay more than their share as it is.
It's not showing off or having goodies they've earned that bothers anyone. They do have the right to their extra vaca home, their expensive cars. I also believe that. What isn't their exclusive right is living because they make more money. That should be a right we all have in America. Life, liberty should be something we provide for ourselves through public service like we do the police and fire dept. I don't think it is the exclusive right of those who make enough to afford it. That is the difference. A life is a life, it should be protected regardless of income, career choice. Most of the people who lack care had insurance, they were dropped 1/2 way through treatment because of cost. They work everyday just like everyone else, just don't make an equal salary. Making health care a public right just like we do with other public service in a moral obligation to me. Not giving something to someone that didn't earn it. How is it you are missing what I'm saying. It's pretty clear. Our health isn't equivalent to an expensive car or lavish home. Life is a right is a free country. We all should pay into it like we do for other public service you seem to not have an issue with.
Anyone can claim to be anything they want, that's easy. What they really are is demonstrated in their behavior. On that point the christians have a huge credibility gap.
Anyone can claim to be anything they want, that's easy. What they really are is demonstrated in their behavior. On that point the christians have a huge credibility gap.
It's like Vegas but in a bad way.
"What ever happens in Church, stays in Church."
Walk out those doors and back to reality they go.
being anti abortion is not always being pro-life ...I guess if you beat a child and sit him or her on their knees for hours on end like the old school priests and nuns used to do, you can't say you are pro life. You are not caring for living things that way or showing them you care about their wellbeing. A person is more than a body alone too, you can kill their soul, their character, their personality with abuse; that's one thing the abusive religious folk don't seem to even care about let alone value! Abortion would have been a blessing, rather than the slow death many in the ophanages went through...
I absolutely agree you are not pro life if you believe in the death penalty. I think it's a sad thing innocent people have been executed, yet I still believe in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
I honestly don't know how you can say it's killing an innocent baby when it's the first trimester of a pregnancy and miscarriages are natural abortions which also happen naturally at this time when things aren't working out right with the embryo. It's the size of a poppy seed. The mother can't afford to give it life.
It's also a bit of a contradiction when our country has such a high infant mortality rate and an infant is an actual baby that we disregard because it's not our problem.
Can you see how this contradiction is puzzling and makes one want to question the ignorance of Republican Christians?
It is not the size of a poppy seed during the first trimester. My daughter is 11 weeks pregnant. Her baby is the size of a fig, over 1.5 inches long, and is almost fully formed.
Miscarriages are an unfortunate thing. Very sad. However, the baby dying from natural (or unnatural) causes, is totally different from an abortion. Do you even know how they kill the baby? Look it up.
A high infant death rate is horrible. You're right, more should be done.
I guess there is ignorance all around. Why we should educate ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis
Anyone can claim to be anything they want, that's easy. What they really are is demonstrated in their behavior. On that point the christians have a huge credibility gap.
Really visvaldis?
I got pregnant at 15, had my daughter at 16. She's now 25 and pregnant. How easy could it have been for me to have an abortion instead of taking responsibility?
My 9 year old son is actually my great nephew. When my niece was pregnant, at 17, we were proud she didn't consider abortion. But when the baby was 3 weeks old, she decided she didn't want to be a mom. So me and my (at that time) husband took him in. We had 24 hours notice. He just turned 9, and I love him just as if I'd had him myself.
Fast forward a few years after my divorce. I'm sowing my oats, living crazy, etc. I'm 37 years old, and I find myself pregnant. The father was basically a one night stand. I told him I was pregnant, and of course he lied and said it couldn't be his, he'd had a vasectomy. (And of course, after the baby was born, it was proven he is a liar). I have not talked to him since the day I told him I was pregnant. He wants nothing to do with her, and rarely pays child support.
I was alone and scared, and shortly after I found out I was pregnant, I was laid off from my job. Would have been very convenient to have an abortion. Instead, my baby girl is turning 4 on April 26th, and she brings much joy to my life.
Please do not lump everyone together. Yes, there are many Christians out there who are hypocrites, but there are also many like me who take responsibility, and even step up to the plate when needed.
It's not showing off or having goodies they've earned that bothers anyone. They do have the right to their extra vaca home, their expensive cars. I also believe that. What isn't their exclusive right is living because they make more money. That should be a right we all have in America. Life, liberty should be something we provide for ourselves through public service like we do the police and fire dept. I don't think it is the exclusive right of those who make enough to afford it. That is the difference. A life is a life, it should be protected regardless of income, career choice. Most of the people who lack care had insurance, they were dropped 1/2 way through treatment because of cost. They work everyday just like everyone else, just don't make an equal salary. Making health care a public right just like we do with other public service in a moral obligation to me. Not giving something to someone that didn't earn it. How is it you are missing what I'm saying. It's pretty clear. Our health isn't equivalent to an expensive car or lavish home. Life is a right is a free country. We all should pay into it like we do for other public service you seem to not have an issue with.
That's why we have programs like free clinics and medicaid for those who need help. No one is telling anyone else they cannot live. Health care is public for those who need it. It's private for those who don't need assistance. Society owes those who cannot take care of themselves but not those who can. Why do you keep on insisting that society doesn't have safety nets in place for the needy when it does?
Health is not equivalent because of choices. The choice to not work out, the choice to eat fast food, the choice to spend $100/month on a smart phone insead of $60 on a check up. These are personal choices. You are correct that health is not a car or phone or lavish home but too many people put those things ahead of their health. You can get a gym membership for less than the price of cable TV and visit your doctor once a month for less than you pay for a cell phone. The problem is our priorities are wrong.
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This is why teen pregnancy rates go up, not down, because of the availability of abortion. Before the fact, they think "I can just get an abortion if I get pregnant" but then it happens and they find it's not so easy to make that decison. 
What does that say about our culture?
