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Yep!
One's ultimate concern (obsession/object of worship/god) is that which we are "ultimately concerned" about, even if we pretend our "god" or ultimate concern is something else more acceptable to others.
Well yes, we are conscious of, only those things we are conscious of. And we look into that mirror to please ourselves, and then to prepare ourselves to please others.
You are incorrect about the way our subconscious is conditioned . . . far less than 20% is through conscious thought. The bulk (80+%) is acquired without our involvement at the conscious level. This makes the bulk of our behavior and its drivers beyond our conscious grasp. But you can tell what you really believe about reality from your behavior in it, Super. If you truly believe human life has innate value . . . your approach to others will reflect it. If you simply intellectually agree that human life has value . . . it may not. True beliefs are often revealed in those situations where the "rubber meets the road" so to speak.
Thanks for expanding on that, Mystic.
I understand that the majority of thoughts, speech & actions are out of our awareness or subconscious. Yet some people are more aware than others, which demonstrates that there is choice in bringing that which is subconscious (beyond our awarenss) to conscious (awareness).
There is power in the conscious mind to influence the subconscious mind, even if it chooses not to. Hypnosis is one way. Also, music, or anything that helps us associate thoughts with feelings, can make an impact on our subconscious processes. The important challenge is to understand our subconscious minds through our behavior, as you mentioned, or other ways like through dreams, feelings etc. It seems that although we are not aware of our "subconscious," we can choose to become more aware of it by exploring the programing of it via our conscious minds. Otherwise, we'd be living out our crazy dreams as if lunitiks! It's like the conscious mind programs, masks & interprets the subconscious.
What's that quote - how many travel to distant lands, searching for new experiences, but neglect to search the emense world within themselves.
Quote:
You begin by trusting yourself and not assuming all is illusion. Our perceptions are strongly selective and our conscious interpretations are definitely biased by our needs (physical, emotional, and intellectual). Still . . . none of this negates the existence of a core reality that we can approach with some semblance of both rationality and insight. Do you meditate? If you can find some way to silence your mind and just "BE" . . . there is a resource that can be tapped that will help center you in the midst of our otherwise "need-driven" existence.
Great advice, thanks.
I do need to meditate more... yoga class gives me time to really meditate, & when I go on walks or into nature.
I just came across a note from a friend I met on another forum, which also helped me with this idea of choosing functional beliefs...
He explained how thoughts can be unraveled, & need to be when interfearing with living life to the fullest. When something makes us really upset, it's a call to explore our thoughts & other possibilities, if we do & go beyond the "uncomfortable" belief that made us so upset, we can consider other, more functional possibilities.
But of course, sometimes we need to make changes, not just rethink things. Ideally, we have "the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can & wisdom to know the difference."
Goals are beliefs, not "true" current reality... Goals are faith in ourselves & our ability to manifest certain circumstances. Only if we choose to believe in their possibility can that possibility have a chance of becoming reality. Yet, if we choose goals/beliefs that are not functional, then they won't help us, but may hurt us.
I think these concepts apply to us all to an extent... theists, atheists, independents, people who believe movies, people who don't believe movies, etc.
Last edited by SuperSoul; 04-28-2012 at 12:21 PM..
Well yes, we are conscious of, only those things we are conscious of. And we look into that mirror to please ourselves, and then to prepare ourselves to please others.
Yeah, I think the obsession with any particular group reflects our social needs. The need to belong is so strong! We start out literally 100% dependent upon another (our mothers). Then gradually, we become less but still somewhat dependent upon others. Our primary caregivers influence how we relate to others.
As adults, we still depend on others, but to a different extent & in different ways & it's not life or death, like it was for us as babies... yet sometimes it feels like it still. I seem to fluctuate between feeling like I can't live without someone... to feeling like I don't need anybody - neither being true.
Obsessions or addictions tend to be an attempt to compensate for some sense of lack & often searching externally for internal wellness. Then if they become habit, then we live on automatic pilot... less conscience of what we do. For practical reasons, it makes sense to form habits, so we can spend the energy better than trying to reinvent the wheel for each day. Yet, habits and concluded belief prevent better possibilites.
Yeah, I think the obsession with any particular group reflects our social needs. The need to belong is so strong! We start out literally 100% dependent upon another (our mothers). Then gradually, we become less but still somewhat dependent upon others. Our primary caregivers influence how we relate to others.
As adults, we still depend on others, but to a different extent & in different ways & it's not life or death, like it was for us as babies... yet sometimes it feels like it still. I seem to fluctuate between feeling like I can't live without someone... to feeling like I don't need anybody - neither being true.
Obsessions or addictions tend to be an attempt to compensate for some sense of lack & often searching externally for internal wellness. Then if they become habit, then we live on automatic pilot... less conscience of what we do. For practical reasons, it makes sense to form habits, so we can spend the energy better than trying to reinvent the wheel for each day. Yet, habits and concluded belief prevent better possibilites.
Is the need to belong and be looked after part of the personality trait that makes a theist? Is god a surrogate parent to theists? That is something I've never considered before, but to me that is strange and foreign...I have been completely independent since the age of 16, and have never desired to "belong" or to depend on any group or individual.
I wonder if these personality differences between those that need to belong and depend on others, and those like myself that not only do not, but would resent any infringement on my independence, is one of the major factors in what makes one a theist, and the other an atheist?
Perhaps not having that need is why I have no need of religion, or any god...I feel that my independence gives me the freedom that I enjoy so much.
Yeah, I think the obsession with any particular group reflects our social needs. The need to belong is so strong! We start out literally 100% dependent upon another (our mothers). Then gradually, we become less but still somewhat dependent upon others. Our primary caregivers influence how we relate to others.
As adults, we still depend on others, but to a different extent & in different ways & it's not life or death, like it was for us as babies... yet sometimes it feels like it still. I seem to fluctuate between feeling like I can't live without someone... to feeling like I don't need anybody - neither being true.
Obsessions or addictions tend to be an attempt to compensate for some sense of lack & often searching externally for internal wellness. Then if they become habit, then we live on automatic pilot... less conscience of what we do. For practical reasons, it makes sense to form habits, so we can spend the energy better than trying to reinvent the wheel for each day. Yet, habits and concluded belief prevent better possibilites.
Very well stated, I certainly understand.
Me myself, I have managed to walk alone in my beliefs, not needing anyonelse to venture out into my path. And I live my life dealing mostly with family and work related aquaintences. And a woman, when I have one. I don't fit into group consciousness anymore, and although I miss some parts of that dynamic, I am growing accustomed to walking alone.
I wonder if these personality differences between those that need to belong and depend on others, and those like myself that not only do not, but would resent any infringement on my independence, is one of the major factors in what makes one a theist, and the other an atheist?
Perhaps not having that need is why I have no need of religion, or any god...I feel that my independence gives me the freedom that I enjoy so much.
The thing is that atheism (or individualism) would never have been possible from the beginning of man simply because man is a herdanimal.
Without the pack/herd man would not have had the time to invent (modern) technology (like agriculture) because he would've been to busy with surviving on his own which would've made atheism impossible.
Originally Posted by sanspeur The thing is that atheism (or individualism) would never have been possible from the beginning of man simply because man is a herdanimal.
Without the pack/herd man would not have had the time to invent (modern) technology (like agriculture) because he would've been to busy with surviving on his own which would've made atheism impossible.
I think Theism made Atheism possible, even the term - " Atheism" couldnot have been created in our vocabulary without Theism. Atheism was derived from Theism, because Theism gave it birth. Its power comes from Theism.
I think Theism made Atheism possible, even the term - " Atheism" couldnot have been created in our vocabulary without Theism. Atheism was derived from Theism, because Theism gave it birth. Its power comes from Theism.
Atheism's power comes from science, reason and logic.
Theism's power comes from belief. And belief is often strong.
Can the atheist be a hypocrite representing a pardonable source? well yes.
Can the theist be a hypocrite representing a pardonable source...no
Does this set the stage for a safe haven individual bet in atheism ? ( avoidance of failure acknowledgement-by interaction in faith-god-witness.) prob
So what we have is not obsession but survival within a use of reason and its justifiable use, with above noted cost-expenditure. (failure, god known,humility required
Is it more, or less rational to believe a higher power exists?
That is the question with use of reason held ransom. Sounds more like survival to me.
Does reason have value? And what is the point of its value, if not to recognize the value of its origin.
So were right back with a reason for the obsession...makes sense to me. Wanted to have a look. Don't mind me, I'm just moseying along.
The amazing thing is that logically God would not know your failure and only know the available potential in the god-human interaction....so the joke is on complexity..simplicity is import to understand!!!....you guys all worry too much. The worriers and thinkers are the ones that least should be concerned...it is logical.
Last edited by peter-1; 04-28-2012 at 08:46 PM..
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Great advice, thanks.
The thing is that atheism (or individualism) would never have been possible from the beginning of man simply because man is a herdanimal.