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Old 05-06-2012, 01:06 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,544,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I agree as long as what they believe does not affect me or society is a negative way, but as you are no doubt aware, the religious often do have sometimes major negative effects, one of which is influencing governments to deny the rights of many...

This is the way things should be... Baillie, atheists defend student's right to wear Jesus T-shirt | The Chronicle Herald
That's a neat story, thanks!

 
Old 05-06-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,589,995 times
Reputation: 192
Theist have done more to damage Gods truth than Atheist have.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 09:16 AM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,516,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarah888 View Post

You must first start with the roots, if you are going to understand anything about Christianity.
Why would anyone look for understanding by starting in the depths of ignorance and superstition of the bronze age.

Religion started in the fertile soil of ignorance and fear of the unknown.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,589,995 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Why would anyone look for understanding by starting in the depths of ignorance and superstition of the bronze age.

Religion started in the fertile soil of ignorance and fear of the unknown.

Everything was started in the fertile soil of religion, know your history.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 01:55 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,537 posts, read 28,625,446 times
Reputation: 25105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
Everything was started in the fertile soil of religion, know your history.
And chemistry started in alchemy.. And astronomy and astrophysics started in astrology.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,589,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
And chemistry started in alchemy.. And astronomy and astrophysics started in astrology.

Astrology came from religion.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 04:54 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,544,700 times
Reputation: 6790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Why would anyone look for understanding by starting in the depths of ignorance and superstition of the bronze age.
This is something like the "fallacy of novelty." The notion a newer thing is right, older thing is of no value. (Also I think the Iron Age had started by the time of Jesus so it's also the error of "I'm parroting blogs because I don't know what I'm talking about.")

As atheists tend to value logic so much fallacious or illogical arguments should likely mean more to you. That said I'd say "fallacy of novelty" ("this idea is newer, therefore better/right") and "argument from ridicule" ("I find that ridiculous, therefore it's not true.") are two major ones many of you do. Although some others would be "fallacists fallacy" (the idea that if a statement contains a fallacy it must not be true.) and sometimes "correlation equals causation." ("Religiosity correlates to poverty, therefore atheism will make a nation richer.")

Anyway back to the "fallacy of novelty", although possibly it's more "chronological snobbery." You're indicating because something is old it can't be useful for understanding. This is faulty. Geometry also started in the Bronze Age as did Democracy. If you said of Democracy "why would I look for understanding in an idea from the depths of ignorance and superstition of the bronze age" you'd likely look pretty strange here.

I have discussed this with you before, but I think you're unwilling or unable to see the flaws in your own thinking even when pointed out repeatedly.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,500,690 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
This is something like the "fallacy of novelty." The notion a newer thing is right, older thing is of no value. (Also I think the Iron Age had started by the time of Jesus so it's also the error of "I'm parroting blogs because I don't know what I'm talking about.")

As atheists tend to value logic so much fallacious or illogical arguments should likely mean more to you. That said I'd say "fallacy of novelty" ("this idea is newer, therefore better/right") and "argument from ridicule" ("I find that ridiculous, therefore it's not true.") are two major ones many of you do. Although some others would be "fallacists fallacy" (the idea that if a statement contains a fallacy it must not be true.) and sometimes "correlation equals causation." ("Religiosity correlates to poverty, therefore atheism will make a nation richer.")

Anyway back to the "fallacy of novelty", although possibly it's more "chronological snobbery." You're indicating because something is old it can't be useful for understanding. This is faulty. Geometry also started in the Bronze Age as did Democracy. If you said of Democracy "why would I look for understanding in an idea from the depths of ignorance and superstition of the bronze age" you'd likely look pretty strange here.

I have discussed this with you before, but I think you're unwilling or unable to see the flaws in your own thinking even when pointed out repeatedly.
But at the same time we should acknowledge the fallacies involved with appeals to tradition and/or the appeals to authority, which much of the modern practice of Christianity is based upon.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 08:20 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,516,494 times
Reputation: 8383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
Astrology came from religion.
And like religion it is pure poppycock.
 
Old 05-06-2012, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,589,995 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
And like religion it is pure poppycock.

Religion is not poppycock , the manner in which it has been abused has been. Religion is the search for the divine, which at its core began science and Astrology in Babylon , as men began to search the stars and the ancient writtings for the meaning of our existence, and that is not poppycock; and your anger at religion does not change or devalue its true core and proper use.

Even science, if abused, can be poppycock; but the science as a whole cannot be blamed for it if certain human scientist ignorantly abused it. So it is with obsession over Atheism or Religion, if it is not counteracted with reason, it becomes poppycock.
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