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It just puzzles me why atheists are so determined to convince others of their views. At least with religion there is the hope of salvation, eternal life, rebirth, etc. With atheism the outcome is always eternal oblivion and the end of consciousness. What possible benefit there is to convert someone over to this horribly depressing and terrifying result (for most people) totally eludes me.
As Joe Hill put it:
Long-haired preachers come out every night
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right
But when asked how 'bout something to eat
They will answer in voices so sweet
You will eat, bye and bye
In that glorious land above the sky
Work and pray, live on hay
You'll get pie in the sky when you die
The moral of the song is that instead of deluding yourself that the caring for the environment doesn't matter, that justice doesn't matter, that human dignity doesn't matter because all of the world's suffering is just an temporary unpleasantment. Becoming an atheist focuses the mind on the hear and now. I should impress upon the unbeliever that fragility of life and how life and the experiences of life are truly sacred.
In short, reality no matter how unpleasant is far better than blissful ignorance.
It just puzzles me why atheists are so determined to convince others of their views. At least with religion there is the hope of salvation, eternal life, rebirth, etc. With atheism the outcome is always eternal oblivion and the end of consciousness. What possible benefit there is to convert someone over to this horribly depressing and terrifying result (for most people) totally eludes me.
The idea that atheism makes for a better life while alive is a canard. Living in terror of coming oblivion is not uplifting. And yes, most people do not consider losing all consciousness in exchange for painless
nothingness to be a "good trade".
That's interesting, because most religious people I know are far more afraid to die than atheists. In fact, I don't know any atheist that lives "in terror of coming oblivion." Death is inevitable, there is no reason to be afraid of it.
The ones who live in fear are the religious.
Religion was born out of our inability to explain natural phenomena, like lightnings. Later, it was used by the Church as a means of controlling people by way of fear, and there history proves this. Who knows where we would be today if the Church hadn't been so powerful.
Blind allegiance to a belief is bad, regardless of what this belief is.
And there's nothing depressing about being an atheist. If anything, atheists can better enjoy life (which, unlike the afterlife, we are sure of its existence) without having to worry about behaving like some stupid old book tells you to.
And your argument is ridiculous. We don't know what happens after we die, so what should we do? Make stuff up? No thank you. Why is it so hard to admit that WE DON'T KNOW?
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Moreover, there are millions of religious / believers who live very satisfying and loving lives toward their fellow man. There are athiest child molesters,too. One cannot honestly equate religion with negativity 100% and atheism with goodness 100%.
Obviously. But trust me, it's a lot easier to want to f**k children when you're forbidden from having sex.
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Originally Posted by tigers84
Athiests don't know the TRUTH. They think they do, sure. But it's not absolute 100%, and never will be. They don't KNOW ALL RELIGION or BELIEF IN GOD is a lie. Spare me the intellectual hubris.
Believers seek the truth too, of course. They just do it with less cynicism and greater Optimism that their existence has purpose beyond their brief time here.
(Most) Atheists don't claim to know the truth. Nobody knows whether there is a God or not. So far, since there is absolutely no evidence of its existence, it is safe to assume there isn't. There's no reason to make stuff up just to feel better. That's a psychological problem.
But organized religion and religious books, those are certainly a bunch of crap.
Athiests don't know the TRUTH. They think they do, sure. But it's not absolute 100%, and never will be. They don't KNOW ALL RELIGION or BELIEF IN GOD is a lie. Spare me the intellectual hubris.
Believers seek the truth too, of course. They just do it with less cynicism and greater Optimism that their existence has purpose beyond their brief time here.
Whether or not atheist know the truth is irrelevant to the point I was making.
I was pointing out that atheist will seek the truth, even if it is uncomfortable.
That was in response to your post in which you stated:
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The idea that atheism makes for a better life while alive is a canard. Living in terror of coming oblivion is not uplifting. And yes, most people do not consider losing all consciousness in exchange for painless
nothingness to be a "good trade".
I agreed with you that atheism may or may not make one happier. But my response is that to most atheist, accepting an uncomfortable truth would be preferable to accepting a comforting lie.
But that's just a value judgement, and it is certainly debatable.
That's interesting, because most religious people I know are far more afraid to die than atheists. In fact, I don't know any atheist that lives "in terror of coming oblivion." Death is inevitable, there is no reason to be afraid of it.
The ones who live in fear are the religious.
Religion was born out of our inability to explain natural phenomena, like lightnings. Later, it was used by the Church as a means of controlling people by way of fear, and there history proves this. Who knows where we would be today if the Church hadn't been so powerful.
Blind allegiance to a belief is bad, regardless of what this belief is.
And there's nothing depressing about being an atheist. If anything, atheists can better enjoy life (which, unlike the afterlife, we are sure of its existence) without having to worry about behaving like some stupid old book tells you to.
And your argument is ridiculous. We don't know what happens after we die, so what should we do? Make stuff up? No thank you. Why is it so hard to admit that WE DON'T KNOW?
Obviously. But trust me, it's a lot easier to want to f**k children when you're forbidden from having sex.
(Most) Atheists don't claim to know the truth. Nobody knows whether there is a God or not. So far, since there is absolutely no evidence of its existence, it is safe to assume there isn't. There's no reason to make stuff up just to feel better. That's a psychological problem.
But organized religion and religious books, those are certainly a bunch of crap.
And optimism? Sure, if you don't believe in Hell.
atheists are the best! Smarter, honest, without fear, enjoy life more, No psychological problems, just fantastic! Meanwhile, religious folk are ignorant scaredy cats, Wanta be child rapists, hidebound, up tight, crap reading dullards!
Good grief, the rage and fury of Athiests is nearly beyond comprehension. In fact it's so strong I makes me think it's maybe the best evidence yet there is a higher power who seeks our engagement.
atheists are the best! Smarter, honest, without fear, enjoy life more, No psychological problems, just fantastic! Meanwhile, religious folk are ignorant scaredy cats, Wanta be child rapists, hidebound, up tight, crap reading dullards!
Good grief, the rage and fury of Athiests is nearly beyond comprehension. In fact it's so strong I makes me think it's maybe the best evidence yet there is a higher power who seeks our engagement.
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of white American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence, demonstrated that Atheists scored an average of 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions." Religiosity and intelligence. Please read the whole wikipedia entrance.
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of white American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence, demonstrated that Atheists scored an average of 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions." Religiosity and intelligence. Please read the whole wikipedia entrance.
Interesting that it mentions " White American Youth", and no other ethnic group. As if these Whites are assumed to be the cream of the crop. I question that; Atheist are largely White and Male- perhaps hitler is not the only person who subscribed to a superior race.
I wonder if Atheism has that underlying current? A pure Theist view must include all peoples, if God is to sanction it.
atheists are the best! Smarter, honest, without fear, enjoy life more, No psychological problems, just fantastic! Meanwhile, religious folk are ignorant scaredy cats, Wanta be child rapists, hidebound, up tight, crap reading dullards!
The only one here that has said these things is....YOU.
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Good grief, the rage and fury of Athiests is nearly beyond comprehension. In fact it's so strong I makes me think it's maybe the best evidence yet there is a higher power who seeks our engagement.
Rage and fury??? How in the hell did you get that from the post you quoted? I am beginning to think no matter how courteously any atheist responds to you, you will, always see it as "rage and fury" ...For goodness sakes imokay was just respectfully sharing his point of view.
Interesting that it mentions " White American Youth", and no other ethnic group. As if these Whites are assumed to be the cream of the crop. I question that; Atheist are largely White and Male- perhaps hitler is not the only person who subscribed to a superior race.
I wonder if Atheism has that underlying current? A pure Theist view must include all peoples, if God is to sanction it.
What? Now you are calling atheists racists?
Be careful...Many people with religious convictions feel that their faith is rock solid. But a new study finds that prompting people to engage in analytical thinking can cause their religious beliefs to waver. To Keep the Faith, Don't Get Analytical - ScienceNOW
Interesting that it mentions " White American Youth", and no other ethnic group. As if these Whites are assumed to be the cream of the crop. I question that; Atheist are largely White and Male- perhaps hitler is not the only person who subscribed to a superior race.
I wonder if Atheism has that underlying current? A pure Theist view must include all peoples, if God is to sanction it.
You could follow the eugenics/ethenic-cleansing roads to figure out which is the larger wizard behind the curtain.
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