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Old 04-27-2012, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,507 posts, read 37,049,703 times
Reputation: 13981

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dust Bowl View Post
I just can't see how in this day in age, people believe in God.

They just don't understand the freedom one has without an authoritative figure keeping me accountable for all my actions and trying to make me live righteously through the words of his son.

Why should I live righteously? Look at the example that those in power have set for us.

Atheism gives you the opportunity to do whatever you want and if there is a rule against it, you can change it because there is no fundamental set of rules that usurps man's law.

If I see an attractive female, I can have sex with her and feel no remorse even though I'm currently in a relationship. As long as I cover my tracks, I can do as I wish.

If only people could understand the power of atheism, I think we would be able to convert more people to this lifestyle.

However, I will admit that if we suffer some sort of massive ecological collapse in which the entire world is affected, I may try to convince people they are responsible for their actions when they die because I don't want to be murdered myself.

I know that's hypocritical, but who says I can't lie? I'm an atheist.

And I love it.

Can anyone else relate?
No I cannot relate to this nonsense....I believe you are a POE....
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:03 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,273,510 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniscient1 View Post
Explain quantum physics.

No offense, but I bet you can't do it...


The more I know, the more I realize that there are things that I don't and/or can't understand. Logically then, there must be things that the most inteilgent human on earth can't understand or explain.

The fact that something can't be explained doesn't affect whether it exists or not.

So I either have a maker I will have to meet, or I don't. I try to live life hedging my bet on the safe side.

That's my take.
Thats ridiculous. Quantum Physics is merely the study of the small. What part of quantum do you want explained? M Theory? String Theory?

The fact is you are holding on to an old dogma; Religion and the belief in god. When you realise that you can have far greater devotion and moral fortitude with your fellow man/woman with referenced thinking then I believe you will truly be enlightened.

Peace.
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,866,354 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
Proof positive requires empirical evidence. There isn't any in either direction.

Christians can't prove their claim, neither can Atheists. The closest thing that either side of this argument have to evidence is their belief and that wouldn't stand in court as solid proof. It's anecdotal at best.
Atheists aren't making a claim, thats the thing. We just don't believe, simply, because there is no reason to. There is no reason to just assume that God exists. Christians are the exact flip of the coin. They make a claim based on nothing, with no reason to believe. Just wanted to clarify that. Sounded a bit as if you were putting Atheist on an even keel with Christians.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:09 PM
 
9,676 posts, read 9,968,370 times
Reputation: 1919
I went through a Pentecostals experience some 15 years ago and Jesus Spirit came and know dwells in My spirit were Visits here night a day , and said he will never leave me ..... When I go through my life in the living presence of the Living God , some times a dark demon spirit comes around and identifies himself , or this demon can bring a pain in my body..... So I pray Jesus Blood prayer, to bind up a demon and cast him down..... And in less that 30 seconds to pain on my body ends and the demon is gone , Jesus Spirit rips it out and it is gone .......... Many years ago I was in a store shopping when I seen in the spirit a Holy Angel of God and it had a pure white wings , Like a doves wing by very pure white fly right in front of me ,.. Jesus spirit said it was a messenger host of the Lord ......The other day I lost a tool at my Job , and looked around all day but never could find it , then at the end of my shift I prayed that I did not want to tell the next shift that the tool was gone , because they could question `what kind of God do you have `..... Right then a thought to go and do this other Job before you go`... so I went to this area , and right there was the tool that I was looking for , I had left it there early in the day and left it there..... See God told me were to find these lost item...... See there is a living God through Lord Jesus , and people need to Repent of sin and seek the kingdom of heaven and Jesus spirit ....Or they will never have a witness of truth, or have a testimony of Jesus Christ...
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Phoenix Arizona
2,032 posts, read 4,877,187 times
Reputation: 2750
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Atheists aren't making a claim, thats the thing. We just don't believe, simply, because there is no reason to. There is no reason to just assume that God exists. Christians are the exact flip of the coin. They make a claim based on nothing, with no reason to believe. Just wanted to clarify that. Sounded a bit as if you were putting Atheist on an even keel with Christians.
Yes they are. They say that there is nothing besides what we can see or experience. You can doubt divinity or the spiritual and be agnostic. You can certainly doubt fundamentalist claims with literal interpretations of religious books. You don't know that there is or isn't something beside what you see.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,890,026 times
Reputation: 3767
Default The actual truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
I went through a Pentecostals experience some 15 years ago and Jesus Spirit came and know dwells in My spirit were Visits here night a day , and said he will never leave me ..... When I go through my life in the living presence of the Living God , some times a dark demon spirit comes around and identifies himself , or this demon can bring a pain in my body..... So I pray Jesus Blood prayer, to bind up a demon and cast him down..... And in less that 30 seconds to pain on my body ends and the demon is gone , Jesus Spirit rips it out and it is gone .......... Many years ago I was in a store shopping when I seen in the spirit a Holy Angel of God and it had a pure white wings , Like a doves wing by very pure white fly right in front of me ,.. Jesus spirit said it was a messenger host of the Lord ......The other day I lost a tool at my Job , and looked around all day but never could find it , then at the end of my shift I prayed that I did not want to tell the next shift that the tool was gone , because they could question `what kind of God do you have `..... Right then a thought to go and do this other Job before you go`... so I went to this area , and right there was the tool that I was looking for , I had left it there early in the day and left it there..... See God told me were to find these lost item...... See there is a living God through Lord Jesus , and people need to Repent of sin and seek the kingdom of heaven and Jesus spirit ....Or they will never have a witness of truth, or have a testimony of Jesus Christ...
Oiy! Here it comes again, like a runaway freight train! A missing screwdriver found by going back to where you worked the day before! This proves God's there to help us all! By Golly! I'm impressed! I gotz tah get me down to church!

Quick! Derail it before someone gets hit and carried off!

RE: Atheists making a claim:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacto View Post
Yes they are. They say that there is nothing besides what we can see or experience. You can doubt divinity or the spiritual and be agnostic. You can certainly doubt fundamentalist claims with literal interpretations of religious books. You don't know that there is or isn't something beside what you see.
No. Rather, we simply say that WE DON'T BELIEVE in yours, or any, outside God influence. And we're not all scientists or anything in particular, btw. Plus we now always have loads of proof that the very special things that Christians say proves the existence of their God actually do not, in fact, prove any such thing. Definition of proof being highly selective on their side of course. And subject to change as the conditions demand...

That their "proofs" are mostly (or always?) ambiguous, always based on faith and heresay, never logically supported, and easily disproven by a vast modern array of technical facts bothers them not. They do not like what we observe in the real world, usually re-assigning alternate meanings or interpretations to those observables.

But again, we're not proselytizers as Christians are supposed to go forth and do, knocking on my door on the weekends, when I want to be left alone. Or when they walk up to me in a Costco parking lot and try to force a JW tract into my hand. And so on. When did you last find an atheist doing THAT, pray tell?

Atheists don't force their personal ideas on anyone, unless we and they choose to get involved in a debate on such a site as City-Data. You do not have to be here, cacto!

Nope. I don't believe in any outside entity, but it's also just my business. I do have the option of coming here and trying to get some honest answers from theists, since I'm interested in their perspectives, but they pretty much can't do that. Proven time and again. And it's usually them who go hostile when they are cornered, which is not hard to do with proven scientific facts these days. Those facts are, after all, sorta overwhelming, IMHO.

All that geological, biochemical, evolutionary, fossil-based, artifact-dated astronomical and logical stuff, all working and co-confirming by so many independent and honest individual cannot just be hand-wavingly dismissed away any more. The Internet will assure us of that!

But I can go dredge up numerous bible-quoting posts and threads here that prove my point that Christians in fact want & seemingly need to proselytize. You disagree?
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,416 posts, read 28,481,259 times
Reputation: 24937
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacto View Post
Yes they are. They say that there is nothing besides what we can see or experience. You can doubt divinity or the spiritual and be agnostic. You can certainly doubt fundamentalist claims with literal interpretations of religious books. You don't know that there is or isn't something beside what you see.
There's a word for something besides what we can see or experience. It's called imagination. You're basically admitting that God is an imaginary belief. And the strongest evidence for the existence of God(s) is that billions upon billions of people in different cultures have held these imaginary beliefs over thousands of years. And of course, many have written extensive mythological accounts of their beliefs in what's called religious scripture.

If atheists are making a claim, then I suppose that claim would be that just because people want their imaginary beliefs to be true doesn't necessarily make them true.
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
714 posts, read 812,064 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post

To have complete faith in something you must know it actually exists and isn't just the figment of many peoples imagination caused by brainwashing.
Wrong. Faith is required in situations where there is not 100% certainty. Faith that the plane will not crash. Faith in your spouse that they aren't cheating. If you know something you don't need faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
To have faith in something because you have been told that it exists or your voices in your head are telling you it exists is extremely naive and some would say stupid. So yes let's see some evidence and actual quantative proof that a God exists.......... we can prove that the Earth has evolved over millions of years with hard facts and beyond a shadow of a doubt so why should we just believe hearsay about a God existing?
Telling people they are extremely naive and stupid? Really? Such insults are not conducive to anything but conflict.

Quantitative proof of god? Hmmmm. How about math! Prove to me god didn't create the possibility of math.

The earth? I thought we humans evolved. The earth has changed, but has it achieved a higher intellect over the years..?

What I really don't understand is why some atheists are so determined to disabuse believers of their beliefs. If you're a contented atheist, more power to you. Fine with me. But for some reason atheists feel this burning rage to turn happy believers into unhappy semi non believers. It's almost like they take personal affront at any soul who is happy with their faith. Why? If they are good people leading decent lives, why do atheists want to upend that? What's the point? What do atheists gain from turning a satisfied believer into a dissatisfied semi nonbeliever? And why do they think insults are an effective prosoltization method? Most Christians do not employ insults in their conversion efforts...

The fact that atheists are so hate filled as to have a need convince strangers that oblivion awaits them in eternity makes me believe in a higher being even more. It's just another test of faith.

Evolution from simple to complex being, without a guiding hand, has been theorized but never proven or actually witnessed. Show me PROOF of the eyes evolution.

Prove to us that life can form spontaneously from non life. Prove it outside a lab. Show me the hard evidence of how it actually happened millions of years ago - not conjecture. No theories - proof.

Prove to me how the complex instructions within DNA developed naturally. Show me the step by step evolution of no DNA to the entire DNA sequence.

Prove the multiverse exists. Prove the big bang came about without a cause or catalyst. Prove that the laws of physics came about by accident without outside interference. Prove that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Don't say the odds are, PROVE IT. Prove that something is the natural order of the universe rather than nothing. Prove that fine tuned universe is just a statistical coincidence.

When you can PROVE all these things, beyond a shadow of a doubt, you wonthaveto prove god doesn't exist. it will be proof plenty.

Ps: I've decided not to hold my breath...
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:35 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,082 posts, read 20,571,542 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigers84 View Post
Wrong. Faith is required in situations where there is not 100% certainty. Faith that the plane will not crash. Faith in your spouse that they aren't cheating. If you know something you don't need faith.



Telling people they are extremely naive and stupid? Really? Such insults are not conducive to anything but conflict.

Quantitative proof of god? Hmmmm. How about math! Prove to me god didn't create the possibility of math.

The earth? I thought we humans evolved. The earth has changed, but has it achieved a higher intellect over the years..?

What I really don't understand is why some atheists are so determined to disabuse believers of their beliefs. If you're a contented atheist, more power to you. Fine with me. But for some reason atheists feel this burning rage to turn happy believers into unhappy semi non believers. It's almost like they take personal affront at any soul who is happy with their faith. Why? If they are good people leading decent lives, why do atheists want to upend that? What's the point? What do atheists gain from turning a satisfied believer into a dissatisfied semi nonbeliever? And why do they think insults are an effective prosoltization method? Most Christians do not employ insults in their conversion efforts...

The fact that atheists are so hate filled as to have a need convince strangers that oblivion awaits them in eternity makes me believe in a higher being even more. It's just another test of faith.

Evolution from simple to complex being, without a guiding hand, has been theorized but never proven or actually witnessed. Show me PROOF of the eyes evolution.

Prove to us that life can form spontaneously from non life. Prove it outside a lab. Show me the hard evidence of how it actually happened millions of years ago - not conjecture. No theories - proof.

Prove to me how the complex instructions within DNA developed naturally. Show me the step by step evolution of no DNA to the entire DNA sequence.

Prove the multiverse exists. Prove the big bang came about without a cause or catalyst. Prove that the laws of physics came about by accident without outside interference. Prove that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Don't say the odds are, PROVE IT. Prove that something is the natural order of the universe rather than nothing. Prove that fine tuned universe is just a statistical coincidence.

When you can PROVE all these things, beyond a shadow of a doubt, you wonthaveto prove god doesn't exist. it will be proof plenty.

Ps: I've decided not to hold my breath...
But all this is just proving our case. Asked to provide some sort of evidential reason to believe in a god, all you can do is demand 100% proof of materialistic origins and disproof of any possibility of God - with of course the old 'Why don't you just shut up and let us alone to preach' card.

It only proves that you have nothing.

There's a question arising here of why we godless are intervening all the time. We are irritated by the posting of unsupported claims. To leave them unchallenged is to give tacit assent. We can't do it. It would be intellectual dishonesty.

Moreover, we think we are on a roll. Doubt about the whole religion worldview seems to be a groundswell. Seize the day. Let it go and we may not get another chance. The Fundamentalists were on a roll just recently.

While I can be sympathetic to the idea of letting people discuss Buddhism or Hinduism without diving in and saying it doesn't add up, there are some posts that seem to throw down a gauntlet. 'Ten proofs of Allah' sort of thing. And Christians dive in as much as the atheists.
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Old 04-27-2012, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,986 posts, read 29,811,476 times
Reputation: 13088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniscient1 View Post
Explain quantum physics.

No offense, but I bet you can't do it...


The more I know, the more I realize that there are things that I don't and/or can't understand. Logically then, there must be things that the most inteilgent human on earth can't understand or explain.

The fact that something can't be explained doesn't affect whether it exists or not.

So I either have a maker I will have to meet, or I don't. I try to live life hedging my bet on the safe side.

That's my take.
I really can't quite get over thinking about this post. You must be omniscient, because you sure did read my mind, right down to the last little detail. I've essentially said the same thing on many occasions myself, but you sure did do a better job of it than I ever have.
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