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“What has changed everything?” asked the apologist from Campus Crusade for Christ International as he spoke on “Unshakable Truth, Relevant Faith” at the Billy Graham Center in Asheville, N.C., Friday evening. His answer was, the Internet.
Arrrrrrrrg...... this is the stupidity that defines the buy bull belt. But it is fun to watch the fear that knowledge and freedom of speech generate in those lost in the willful ignorance of the bronze age.
So Christians are losing out in the market place of ideas? So much for free market principles.
Seems to me that evangelicals have as opportunity to post their views than ever before as well, it isn't their fault that logic, rational thought and science have a more compelling story to tell.
That would mean that the playing field was level, and that is totally unacceptable to supporters of ignorance. Here on CD they are very active trying to silence what they cannot counter with reason or evidence. Fortunately in the real world they have no such ability.
Ah, but I don't think you do because you said the following.....
Quote:
Yup truth is pretty much subjective and harder to prove than exposing blatant lies and manipulation of people which of course religions are expert in.
Truth isn't subjective at all. Truth is objective. The truth is the truth no matter how we percieve it. Even if you could say there were no truth at all. I would counter by asking you if that statement were true. So, even if you want to say that truth is subjective, the fact that it is subjective is an objective truth, i.e. an absolute truth.
"The Internet has given atheists, agnostics, skeptics, the people who like to destroy everything that you and I believe, the almost equal access to your kids as your youth pastor and you have... whether you like it or not,” said McDowell.
Yet he cannot see that everything that "you and I believe" was indoctrinated and/or shoved down our throats for a really long time. BTW, Mr. McDowell, not everyone in the US (let alone the world) believes "everything that you and I believe." Never have. Another Fundamentalist/Evangelical delusion.
What Mr McDowell also does not recognize is that the only people who actually seem upset by it all are Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christians and Fundamentalist Muslims (funny how the "F" word appears in both those examples. I don't hear Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, (heck name a religion), or even main stream Christians getting all bent out of shape about it.
If their faith is strong and they purportedly have the "Truth" on their side, why do they fear atheists and agnostics or, for that matter, other religions? It think deep down where it counts, where no one sees them and in their most secret thoughts, they really don't believe any of it, but are to afraid to step away from it. Why else do they fear us so? Oh wait, he says so right here:
“Now here is the problem,” said McDowell, “going all the way back, when Al Gore invented the Internet [he said jokingly], I made the statement off and on for 10-11 years that the abundance of knowledge, the abundance of information, will not lead to certainty; it will lead to pervasive skepticism. And, folks, that’s exactly what has happened. It’s like this. How do you really know, there is so much out there… This abundance [of information] has led to skepticism. And then the Internet has leveled the playing field [giving equal access to skeptics].”
Yep, information. It has always been the Church's mortal enemy. Oh forbid that people become educated and knowledgeable about things. They might just start to question some cement-haired, sweating moron (or worse schuckster) wearing a cheap suit and waving a bible. Hallelujah!
Last edited by Fullback32; 04-30-2012 at 10:42 PM..
Truth isn't subjective at all. Truth is objective. The truth is the truth no matter how we perceive it. Even if you could say there were no truth at all. I would counter by asking you if that statement were true. So, even if you want to say that truth is subjective, the fact that it is subjective is an objective truth, i.e. an absolute truth.
Of course we have absolute truths, we definitely know the truth how rainbows are formed and not because of some covenant way back when.
I was inferring more to the purported realities folk find themselves in and what they perceive as "truth".
I really am not disagreeing with your original statement.
"The Internet has given atheists, agnostics, skeptics, the people who like to destroy everything that you and I believe, the almost equal access to your kids as your youth pastor and you have... whether you like it or not,†said McDowell.
Yet he cannot see that everything that "you and I believe" was indoctrinated and/or shoved down our throats for a really long time. BTW, Mr. McDowell, not everyone in the US (let alone the world) believes "everything that you and I believe." Never have. Another Fundamentalist/Evangelical delusion.
What Mr McDowell also does not recognize is that the only people who actually seem upset by it all are Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christians and Fundamentalist Muslims (funny how the "F" word appears in both those examples. I don't hear Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, (heck name a religion), or even main stream Christians getting all bent out of shape about it.
If their faith is strong and they purportedly have the "Truth" on their side, why do they fear atheists and agnostics or, for that matter, other religions? It think deep down where it counts, where no one sees them and in their most secret thoughts, they really don't believe any of it, but are to afraid to step away from it. Why else do they fear us so? Oh wait, he says so right here:
“Now here is the problem,†said McDowell, “going all the way back, when Al Gore invented the Internet [he said jokingly], I made the statement off and on for 10-11 years that the abundance of knowledge, the abundance of information, will not lead to certainty; it will lead to pervasive skepticism. And, folks, that’s exactly what has happened. It’s like this. How do you really know, there is so much out there… This abundance [of information] has led to skepticism. And then the Internet has leveled the playing field [giving equal access to skeptics].â€
Yep, information. It has always been the Church's mortal enemy. Oh forbid that people become educated and knowledgeable about things. They might just start to question some cement-haired, sweating moron (or worse schuckster) wearing a cheap suit and waving a bible. Hallelujah!
Good to see you posting again FB.
The great thing is when these excuses for snakeoil salesmen cite the other sides stuff and usually out of context, a mere highlight of the sentence and right click and search google for will lead you to the source.
The apologists nightmare is not a banana, it is google or yahoo or dogpile.
The belief or worldview, McDowell said, forms values, which in turn drive one’s behavior. The worldview “is where we are falling down the most anywhere in the world.” So what is the prevalent worldview in America today? “There is no truth apart from myself,” that’s what even many young “evangelical, fundamental, born-again Christians” believe, he said.
While 51 percent of evangelical Christians did not believe in absolute truth in an earlier survey, the percentage escalated to 62 in 1994. In 1999, it jumped to 78 percent. “You know what it is now?” asked McDowell. “One of the most staggering statistics in history of the church… 91 percent said there is no absolute truth apart from myself.”
Another study, added McDowell, showed that only six percent of all teenagers in America, including Christians, said there isn’t any truth apart from myself. There was a difference of only five percent between believers and non-believers, he noted. Moreover, less than four percent of evangelical born-again Christians believed the Bible was infallible in every situation, and 63 percent of them believed He is “a” Son of God and not “the” Son of God, he added.
I read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". It was full of quote mines from other Apologists, misrepresentations from legitimate biblical scholars, faith based (not evidence-based) claims, and outright lies.
If I had actually paid good money for it instead of borrowing it, I would have "Demanded a Refund".
From what I can gather, all his 'books' are like this. He is a scammer out to make money off gullible people who have a very low standard for so-called 'evidence' of something they really really want to believe.
Definitely a 'snake-oil' salesman with claims that are not very difficult to debunk for those who actually bother to research his 'sources'. Something his adoring followers never seem to do.
I read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". It was full of quote mines from other Apologists, misrepresentations from legitimate biblical scholars, faith based (not evidence-based) claims, and outright lies.
If I had actually paid good money for it instead of borrowing it, I would have "Demanded a Refund".
From what I can gather, all his 'books' are like this. He is a scammer out to make money off gullible people who have a very low standard for so-called 'evidence' of something they really really want to believe.
No the US apologist stuff really does not sell well here even among xians. I cant remember seeing this in xian book stores and we really do not have a debate here in SA. No one believes in YEC here apart from a few gullible folk aligned to US churches. Religion has always been a private matter and we really have not had too much sway of the religious in policy issues or education. Real science, history and geography are taught here and has been so for a long while.
Plus Africa is rife with evidence of old earth and many kids grow up seeing this for themselves first hand
We have our loons but they are limited to blogs and have no sway over the masses. One just has to point to the two world's oldest cave formations and say, explain that! and they shaddup.
No the US apologist stuff really does not sell well here even among xians. I cant remember seeing this in xian book stores and we really do not have a debate here in SA. No one believes in YEC here apart from a few gullible folk aligned to US churches. Religion has always been a private matter and we really have not had too much sway of the religious in policy issues or education. Real science, history and geography are taught here and has been so for a long while.
Plus Africa is rife with evidence of old earth and many kids grow up seeing this for themselves first hand
We have our loons but they are limited to blogs and have no sway over the masses. One just has to point to the two world's oldest cave formations and say, explain that! and they shaddup.
Sounds similiar to here in Australia.
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