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Grasse and the "Myth of Evolution"
Even until the 1970s there was at least one famous French scientist of the "old school," Pierre P. Grasse, who continued to voice strong reservations concerning Darwin's particular explanation (and the Neo-Darwinian explanation) of "how" evolution occurred. Not surprisingly, Grasse is quoted FIVE TIMES in The Revised Quote Book, because he wrote of the "myth of evolution, considered as a simple, understood, and explained phenomenon."
However, the editors of The Revised Quote Book neglect to tell their readers that in the same book by Grasse from which they have quoted, Grasse also stated in the most unequivocal terms: "Zoologists and botanists are nearly unanimous in considering evolution as a fact and not a hypothesis. I agree with this position and base it primarily on documents provided by paleontology, i.e., the history of the living world ... [Also,] Embryogenesis provides valuable data [concerning evolutionary relationships] ... Chemistry, through its analytical data, directs biologists and provides guidance in their search for affinities between groups of animals or plants, and ... plays an important part in the approach to genuine evolution." (Pierre P. Grasse, Evolution of Living Organisms, Academic Press, New York, 1977, pp. 3,4,5,7)
(Talk origins)
There is argument about the way evolution happened, but there is pretty much total concensus that it di happen. There is none of this "Disagreement with Darwinism" stuff the Creationists keep peddling.
The thing about quotemining is that those people who dig out the quote must know what the rest of it says, and must ignore it to make it look as though they have found an expert in the field who denies evolution. This is dishonest, and to say so is not "Insulting" but true.
I've often wondered why, if Christianity is true, they have to tell so many lies to support it.
I've often wondered why, if Christianity is true, they have to tell so many lies to support it.
Well, that's the Mystery I have been pondering in the "Why". As I say, that Evolution, not Genesis is true, that History is not as the Bible relates it and that the Gospel Jesus is a fabrication is the 'What', debate, now over - and that includes Fatima (one of my favourite debunks ).
The Methods, of Rhetorical devices such as quotemining, proof by analogy, the Gish -gallop (filiblustering adapted to religious apologetics) and good old denial, running away shouting "I win' and repetition, repetition and endless bloody repetition of the same debunked claims, is pretty much known.
The 'Why' is of course Faith. Faith in God as a given which explains all the illogic, denial and even the validity of lying for Jesus, because evidence is only 'True" if it supports the faith. It is "Lies" if it doesn't - even if true. We even know (the evidence is lockdown) that everyone's God is a car of a different colour and is very much their own ego, character and views inflated to Cosmic size. We can even identify this with the Destiny -belief of the notable military and political leaders, even if they were not religious in the themselves Alexander, Nelson, Napoleon, Hitler - oh yes - and I'd put McArthur and Patton in the same category. Even if religious, their destiny came first.
Well, as I say, this personal God delusion is still work in progress - the Why we do it (well, we know it has to be an evolutionary survival trait) is still work in progress. But Why they lie for what they believe is true - well old soap -bubble, I think you have your answer.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-01-2017 at 07:27 AM..
If all components aren't there, we don't have an operational machine. You put three tires on your chevy truck, it doesn't go 3/4 less better. It doesn't work until all four tires are working.
This evolving is not SCIENCE. It is Science fiction. It is Religion that requires greater FAITH that a Creator designed it for this function. It is the only rationale conclusion.
And we come to this conclusion by using what we observe... Science.
No one would conclude a car came into being without an engineer. It is a rationale conclusion.
I do believe in evolution. A loving God would not leave all of us as low grade human, we are expected to learn and grow and change.
However, it is not onbly impossible but stupid to use evolution as a rationale for a God-less universe. If evolution is a thing, the biological mechanisms for it are at least as complicated.
I don't think that evolution itself has been used as a rationale for a goddless universe. It debunks Genesis as literal fact. That's all. It displaces deism as the only alternative to Religion, because there is an alternative explanation. Complexity itself as an argument doesn't actually work. It is effectively one of the arguments for I/D. It fails on various grounds - the lack of sensible design in very basic things like the backbone or the eye debunks a designer. It is put together on a trial and error basis and that it is complex is no more evidence than the trillions of atoms all working away in a pebble means that someone created it on a drawing -board or that because there are unimaginable numbers of grains of sand on a beach, means that it could not have got there without an intelligence.
Apart for failure of Imagination when "God' os popped in where ability to comprehend the reality fails, the lack of a coherently worked out plan whether in Evolutionary terms or indeed in Genesis means that the scientific evidence and indeed the Biblical evidence debunks the Abrahamic gods and the religions with them Really.
There still some sorta -god. It is exists in a gap - specifically Unknowns. But unknowns are not evidence for a god, but are simply placed where a god -claim can lurk and science can't yet flush it out and stomp on it.
This is all a question of using the brain and not switching it off and either not knowing or not wanting to know. But it was not I who used the term 'Stupid". It may be time to call theist apologetics on this last -ditch ploy to smear and discredit atheism by claiming how rude and deprecating we are about Theists, when in fact it is much, much, more, how Believers act towards us.
However, it is not only impossible but stupid to use evolution as a rationale for a God-less universe. If evolution is a thing, the biological mechanisms for it are at least as complicated.
So you're mounting an argument from complexity variant of the argument from incredulity? If something is complex it requires god?
Natural selection is actually quite simple and uncomplicated; it just favors behaviors and characteristics that maximize the passing on of genetic material. It doesn't optimize for enjoyment but for survival, and in fact for a narrow sort of survival: not pure longevity but survival long enough to reproduce, nothing more. A short, miserable existence will do just fine for purposes of natural selection.
My computer and smart phone are incredibly complex but no one is suggesting god created or sustains them.
So you're mounting an argument from complexity variant of the argument from incredulity? If something is complex it requires god?
Natural selection is actually quite simple and uncomplicated; it just favors behaviors and characteristics that maximize the passing on of genetic material. It doesn't optimize for enjoyment but for survival, and in fact for a narrow sort of survival: not pure longevity but survival long enough to reproduce, nothing more. A short, miserable existence will do just fine for purposes of natural selection.
My computer and smart phone are incredibly complex but no one is suggesting god created or sustains them.
I think they are if, they are saying all elements belong to a God.
Here is another example of an incredibly complex thing:
All of that complexity arose from from one simple rule: earn money.
compare the biosphere to a cell, a phone, and a rock.
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