Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Someone said that my Big Bang argument is not valid. But, for all matter and energy, even physical space and time themselves, came into being at the Big Bang. As the physicist P. C. W. Davies explains, "the coming into being of the universe, as discussed in modern science . . . is not just a matter of imposing some sort of organization . . . upon a previous incoherent state, but literally the coming-into-being of all physical things from nothing." http://aca.mq.edu.au/pdavies.html (broken link).
Of course, alternative theories have been crafted over the years to try to avoid this absolute beginning (and some have been posted here), but none of these theories has commended itself to the scientific community as more plausible than the Big Bang theory. In 2003 Arvind Borde, Alan Guth, and Alexander Vilenkin were able to prove that any universe which is, on average, in a state of cosmic expansion cannot be eternal in the past but must have an absolute beginning.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning.
--Alex Vilenkin, Many Words in One: The Search for Other Universes (New York: Hill and Wang, 2006), p. 176.
I am not going to do the talking. I urge you all to read up on the material yourself if you want to learn more.
The Big Bang theory does not state that "something came from nothing." (From the quote above, it doesn't appear that Davies is referring exclusively to the Big Bang theory.)
The Big Bang theory shows that expansion began from a singularity. The Big Bang theory does not show from where or how this singularity came into existence.
That's more of that crap like "no atheists in foxholes". There's a veterans group that dispels that one not to mention when Tillman was killed his last words were to yell at a soldier to fight who was too busy crouched down scared praying.
You do have it backwards, TexasNick, as was already pointed out to you. When someone makes a claim, they have to offer proof to substantiate it and the bigger the claim, the bigger the proof required. No proof, no validity to claim.
Have a nice day
how does that work, they are veterans and they say there is no god and they are a group, so they must be right huh? i mean did they come back and provide verifs or something?
anyway praying is good, but as you well pointed out shooting back at the enemy is also a good idea.
standing up and yelling at people to do their job in a fire fight is not a good idea. that makes sense.
just a suggestion. i respect your right to maintain your opinions. unfortunately we will never find out who was really "right" til we get to the otherside, huh? i kind of like the road i am on as it encourages me to be kind and tolerant of others and fair, not a whole lot of that in the world i live in. so for purely personal reasons i am sticking with my current program.
how does that work, they are veterans and they say there is no god and they are a group, so they must be right huh? i mean did they come back and provide verifs or something?
anyway praying is good, but as you well pointed out shooting back at the enemy is also a good idea.
standing up and yelling at people to do their job in a fire fight is not a good idea. that makes sense.
just a suggestion. i respect your right to maintain your opinions. unfortunately we will never find out who was really "right" til we get to the otherside, huh? i kind of like the road i am on as it encourages me to be kind and tolerant of others and fair, not a whole lot of that in the world i live in. so for purely personal reasons i am sticking with my current program.
thanks for listening
stephen s
san diego ca
addendum help me out i just reread your post, wasnt texnick one of the identified troll posts on the list yesterday?
i need to read this stuff more carefully.
thanks
stephen s
san diego ca
My point wasn't that the veterans came back with proof that there's no god, the point was that there's that saying that there are no atheists in foxholes, implying that when scared or in life threatening instances, then everyone starts believing. They show that's not true.
how does that work, they are veterans and they say there is no god and they are a group, so they must be right huh? i mean did they come back and provide verifs or something?
anyway praying is good, but as you well pointed out shooting back at the enemy is also a good idea.
standing up and yelling at people to do their job in a fire fight is not a good idea. that makes sense.
just a suggestion. i respect your right to maintain your opinions. unfortunately we will never find out who was really "right" til we get to the otherside, huh? i kind of like the road i am on as it encourages me to be kind and tolerant of others and fair, not a whole lot of that in the world i live in. so for purely personal reasons i am sticking with my current program.
thanks for listening
stephen s
san diego ca
Well, it's my opinion that if 10,000 soldiers go into battle (5000 on one side and 5000 on the other) and let's say 90% of them are believers. One in the Christian God and one in the God of Fireworks. So that leaves us with 9000 soldiers, approximately 4500 on each side both worshiping different deities. Now let's say that of all the people who prayed to their respective God's only about 200 on each side remain standing at the end of battle. Did God only answer the prayers of the remaining 200 people? And if so, what about the 200 people on the other side that prayed to a different God? Did that God spare them too? Or, perhaps was this all just chance? Now, let's say that the original 1000 people who were atheists were still alive after the battle. Or at least, a vast majority of them, what happened there? I think all too often, people are so quick to claim divine intervention on the good things that happen in life. It makes no sense to me that God would only answer the prayers of the few and leave the suffering to the many and then that he would answer the prayers of the opposition who worshipped a different deity.
Now, let's put it in a little bit of a lighter perspective. Many professional football teams pray together before the game. If one team wins, was it god who answered their prayers? And if so, why did he answer the one team's prayers and leave the other's disregarded? No, I think the sheer talent of the one team defeated the other. So why credit the win to God? This does not seem logical to me. When a team wins the Super Bowl, why thank god for the win? Last I checked I didn't see a long-haired robed figure running down the field dodging tackles...
For the same reason many artists in the past were not allowed to sign their work. Only God creates.
So if someone wins he did that by the grace of God, even ( or especially) if the winner is an atheist.
Believing this takes the sting out of loosing.
its the end of the reef isn't it? i mean the evidence either way, nobody gets back to talk about it, huh.
but you asked for an atheist opinion and that would not be me.
there are no atheists on a burning sinking ship.
they disappear just like magic. wow.
stephen s
san diego ca
explain to me how rational a person would be if they were on a burning sinking ship... that only goes further to show that belief in god isn't based in as much reason as many would like it to be. a lot of people from "false" religions pray to their god(s) on burning sinking ships as well.
Maybe we need to examine how many people have seen, and therefore believe in, Flying Saucers. Some have even been taken up and given rides.
Does this make Flying Saucers real? Why not? Can you prove that they were NOT seen? Why not?
As far as I am concerned, there may be UFOs. I don't really know. No one has proven that they exist. No one has proven that they don't. No one will come up with an explanation that will satisfy both sides.
It either matters about UFOs or God, or it doesn't. Whatever you need, that's the right answer for YOU. Not for others.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
or especially) if the winner is an atheist.
