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Since I have several Jewish Friends and Jewish relatives, I have not found any reason we can not be on an individual level. There are some Jews I would not want as friends just as there are people of all faiths, I would not desire as friends. but I see no reason why our religious differences should keep individuals from sharing Friendship if they so desire.
The Qur'an does forbid me from having a non-Muslim as a Wali, but a wali is not the same as the English word Friend although it is often translated as such. A wali is basically a protector who will defend your faith and help you follow it properly. It is foolish to ask a person of another faith to be the defender of your own faith and expect them to guide you properly. I doubt if any non-Muslim would want me to be their Wali. So it is I would never ask nor expect a non-Muslim to be my Wali.
However friendship and the extending of mutual fair treatment is not the same as having a person be your wali.
There are several Jewish members I would enjoy having as friends and neighbors. To them I extend out my hand in Friendship.
The Qur'an does forbid me from having a non-Muslim as a Wali, but a wali is not the same as the English word Friend although it is often translated as such. A wali is basically a protector who will defend your faith and help you follow it properly. It is foolish to ask a person of another faith to be the defender of your own faith and expect them to guide you properly. I doubt if any non-Muslim would want me to be their Wali. So it is I would never ask nor expect a non-Muslim to be my Wali.
The Bible has a verse that goes something like "Leaneth not upon your own understanding". I think it's one of the silliest and ignorant lines ever written, used simply as an attempt to stifle the concept of individual thought. Does the Quran have a similar scripture within it?
Fundamental Christians like to pull that line out of the hat when people attempt to translate a meaning from scripture. I assume those who practice the tenets of fundamental Islam do the same. In this case, you are leaning upon your own understanding. Would most muslims disagree with you on this topic? Would most hardcore muslims disagree with the things you wrote in your first paragraph? Why do I get the feeling they would disagree with you? Now, I'm not talking about a co-worker or someone you are obligated to share a space with. I'm talking about an individual that you spend personal time with by choice. Does the Quran not forbid muslims from associating with the infidel, with the exception of a conversion attempt?
The Bible has a verse that goes something like "Leaneth not upon your own understanding". I think it's one of the silliest and ignorant lines ever written, used simply as an attempt to stifle the concept of individual thought. Does the Quran have a similar scripture within it?
Fundamental Christians like to pull that line out of the hat when people attempt to translate a meaning from scripture. I assume those who practice the tenets of fundamental Islam do the same. In this case, you are leaning upon your own understanding. Would most muslims disagree with you on this topic? Would most hardcore muslims disagree with the things you wrote in your first paragraph? Why do I get the feeling they would disagree with you? Now, I'm not talking about a co-worker or someone you are obligated to share a space with. I'm talking about an individual that you spend personal time with by choice. Does the Quran not forbid muslims from associating with the infidel, with the exception of a conversion attempt?
Actually a Muslim is encouraged to verify all things. I am trying to find the Exact ayyat that commands us to READ. READ Read.
To follow blindly is called Taqlid, we are forbidden to practice Taqlid. From another Muslim I quote:
Quote:
It should be observed that taqlid pertains only to the realm of the shari'ah; there can be no taqlid in the matters of belief (usulu 'd-din). A Muslim must hold his belief in the fundamentals of his religion after attaining conviction of their truth through examination and reflection. The Qur'an very clearly condemns those who follow others blindly in matters of belief:
And when it is said to them, "Come now to what Allah has sent down, and the Messenger," they say, "Enough for us is what we found our fathers doing". What, even if their fathers had knowledge of naught and were not rightly-guided? (5:104)
The Bible has a verse that goes something like "Leaneth not upon your own understanding". I think it's one of the silliest and ignorant lines ever written, used simply as an attempt to stifle the concept of individual thought. Does the Quran have a similar scripture within it?
Fundamental Christians like to pull that line out of the hat when people attempt to translate a meaning from scripture. I assume those who practice the tenets of fundamental Islam do the same. In this case, you are leaning upon your own understanding. Would most muslims disagree with you on this topic? Would most hardcore muslims disagree with the things you wrote in your first paragraph? Why do I get the feeling they would disagree with you? Now, I'm not talking about a co-worker or someone you are obligated to share a space with. I'm talking about an individual that you spend personal time with by choice. Does the Quran not forbid muslims from associating with the infidel, with the exception of a conversion attempt?
Now to address what I did not answer.
Yes, some Muslims will disagree with my view of non-Muslim friends. Particulary those who do not have English as their first language and equate Friend and Wali as being the same. to back up my view is the fact we are permitted to Marry "People of the Book" it is usually logical to be friends with the people you pick your wife from.
We are forbidden to associate with the "Disbelievers" or more correctly those who are anti-Islam engaged in fighting against Islam.
Yes, some Muslims will disagree with my view of non-Muslim friends. Particulary those who do not have English as their first language and equate Friend and Wali as being the same. to back up my view is the fact we are permitted to Marry "People of the Book" it is usually logical to be friends with the people you pick your wife from.
We are forbidden to associate with the "Disbelievers" or more correctly those who are anti-Islam engaged in fighting against Islam.
Woodrow my brother, though I do not agree entirely with your belief, I do respect the fact that you believe in it and will speak up for your right to do so and it is the same with any other religion. As you may know, among my people it is incumbent upon us to learn about all other religions and cultures so that we are free to make our own choice. My choice has been that of my ancient ancestors and it is a choice that I made very freely. My culture does not forbid me from having friends of other beliefs and cultures, this is how we learn.osay
This is interesting. Does this apply to all Muslims who have been born into Islam? What if after reading and study you decide you cannot hold a belief that is in the Quran? Would you be encouraged to continue to act as if it were true even though you do not believe, or to pray to Allah to make you believe? It seems that Islam does not take kindly to those who leave the faith. So what then, are the options for Muslims that cannot believe in Islam?
Woodrow my brother, though I do not agree entirely with your belief, I do respect the fact that you believe in it and will speak up for your right to do so and it is the same with any other religion. As you may know, among my people it is incumbent upon us to learn about all other religions and cultures so that we are free to make our own choice. My choice has been that of my ancient ancestors and it is a choice that I made very freely. My culture does not forbid me from having friends of other beliefs and cultures, this is how we learn.osay
Quite True My Friend.
My Second wife was Tsalagi and she followed the same path you choose. My present wife was raised following the Path of the cheyenne, However in the 1940s she was one of the children "Rescued" by the missionaries and placed in a nice Christian Home. After she finally excaped from her nice Christian home she returned to the Cheyenne path but several years before I met her she reverted to Islam. what I find amazing is there is very little in the followings of both the Tsalagi and Cheyenne that is forbidden in Islam. A person can be Muslim and follow quite a bit of your road.
But for all people the path we walk should be based upon our choices.
This is interesting. Does this apply to all Muslims who have been born into Islam? What if after reading and study you decide you cannot hold a belief that is in the Quran? Would you be encouraged to continue to act as if it were true even though you do not believe, or to pray to Allah to make you believe? It seems that Islam does not take kindly to those who leave the faith. So what then, are the options for Muslims that cannot believe in Islam?
They are very few things a Muslim has to believe. There are 5 things all Muslims are obligated to do those being:
A Muslim must acknowledge that "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet"
A Muslim must pray five times daily facing Mecca: at dawn, at noon, in the midafternoon, at dusk, and after dark.
Each Muslim must give to Charity.
A Muslim must fast for the month of Ramadan. During the fasting month, one must refrain from eating, drinking, smoking, and sexual intercourse from dawn until sunset.
A Muslim must make a pilgrimage to Mecca. Every adult Muslim who is physically and financially able to do so must make this pilgrimage at least once in his or her lifetime.
To deliberately refuse any of them is sufficient reason to believe the person has left Islam
There are 6 beliefs most Muslims hold in common those being:
1.Belief in One God
2.Belief in His messengers (Moses,Jesus, Muhammad etc)
3.Belief in Angels ( i.e Gabriel)
4.Belief in fate
5.Belief in the Books ( Torah.Bible,Psalm, Quran etc)
6.Belief in the day of Judgment
Failure to believe any or all of them does not necessarily mean the person has left Islam.
I was not born Muslim so I can not answer with certainty. However, I have found very much individualism among all Muslims. world wide most Muslims do not have any standardized teachings. Generally the first teacher will be the Person's Mother who will teach the basics of how to do abulution and the prayers. Later the person often Takes Qur'an lessons which are essentially how to read the Qur'anic Arabic and the proper pronunciation of the words. It is usually near adulthood a person begins reading Tafsir (various interpretations and explanations of the Qur'an) In an Islamic Nation a person will usually be exposed to the 4 accepted Madhabs of Sunni and encouraged to learn about each and decide on their own which one they find to be true. then the actual learning of Islam begins and never ends. We continuously seek verification of all things. Blind following is forbidden according to every Muslim I know.
I think a better question is really why is America friends with Israel?
While demonizes Muslims.
The U.S ignores the Lavon Affair & U.S.S Liberty bombing
U.S ignores that Israeli Mossad cheered for 9/11 & even Israeli politicians who said 911 was a good thing.
That is a different issue and well worth a thread of it's own. Please start such a thread and I will gladly respond to it.
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