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Nice to meet ya! I am another lifetime atheist. I have always stated in my posts that I was born without a belief in god (atheist) and still remain without belief. You would be suprised how many of us are out here. You just are not aware of it.
My college roommate raised two atheist kids.
They're wonderful adults now.
Lack of evidence is not evidence. And what one person calls reasonable is not reasonable to another. Ignorance goes both ways.
Claims that are reasonable can be proven by using the scientific method. It isn't reasonable to postulate a god exists if the claim isn't grounded in science. Also, I didn't say that lack of evidence was evidence, but it is rational to not accept a claim as true if there isn't any evidence to support it. The problem with this girl's conversion is that it was not based on rational thinking. This is why intellectually inclined atheists won't accept this sort of thing as a reason to convert to religion. Many atheists have come to their conclusions based on examining the evidence and therefore won't accept conversion testimonies as a valid reason to believe.
Oh what a biased "load'a" thou bringest to every discussion. "theft" by whom? Oh yeah, I forgot: Satan. Yup. Science (aka: logical, step-wise thinking...) is crud huh? Then throw away that laptop, and commence to sending your posts in by snail mail! (Honestly, the blatant hypocrisy rampant in religion is pathetic, and very Selectively Convenient!)
Your hatred of atheism is tangible, and what's that smell around here? Oh yeah; you must have left a bad post r'oun' heah... FYI: I was a Christian, simply seeking to get some timely and polite answers to further my faith and my beliefs, but those in positions of authority were unable, or categorically unwilling, to provide any simple answers to my very simple and friendly questions.
It therefore became painfully obvious to me as a practicing Christian, but one wanting to move beyond the "fall down and yowl in unison & on command!" prototype, that there were no good answers, unless one was also willing to suspend all of their common sense. Some, of course, simply buy into whatever they are told, and then quietly go and sit down and call it "good". Remind you of anyone, lw?
I can of course easily prove this to you, lw but again, not a one of you is EVER interested in an actual RRoO debate. (Roberts' Rules of Order; look it up. It's not atheist, it's just how real debates are conducted! Too bad that frightens the heck out of you types.... Not to mention that you've probably never heard of those Rules, now have you? The UN and the US Senate & House and British Parliament as examples, have; that's how they all operate. But... be honest now, for a change... You simply won't allow for such a controlled exchange, now will you? [waiting for the predicted and vicious ad hominem response instead of a "Well, I guess we could give it a try...")]
Me Delusional? Christians claim: All known organisms were set afloat on a leaky pitch-sealed unpowered barge for 18 mo, with no food and water, only to be disembarked at the frozen 13,000 foot level. Imagine: a lone Amazonian Parrot pair left to fend for themselves in such a wondrously "special" environment!!!?
Or, an Instant Genesis event all backwards and illogical, but also out of nothing? Absolutely no evidence for Evolutionary processes? Co-existing T-Rex pets amongst the village children & goats? Brontosauri pulling the agri-plows? Geological evidence of an ancient (very VERY ancient..) earth all haphazardously and hand-wavingly dismissed and discarded as all being faked by every geologist?
Numbers of felony-faker pseudo-scientist bloviating Christians who have granted themselves "honorary" PhDs in "whatever" and then posting utter nonsenses on the 'net, which you loyal and blindered guys and girls all lap up like dehydrated rat-dogs, then fatuihfully and unquestioningly re-parotting it ad nauseum & ad infinitum for all of us to read?
You who are all unable to answer even the simplest technical question, or explaining your positions and decisions absent another ambiguous biblical post (as proof, no less...) and yet then presenting yourselves as some sort of technical gurus, all the while denigrating those of us who have, yup, the actual credentials to comment on technical issues?
And I'm delusional? Boy, you REALLY need help, my laddie! Such knee-jerk reactionist and fear-inspired accusations are entirely predictable, sadly for any of your arguments, ever.
But still, if I'm so SO wrong, and if you wish to deny the "unwilling to answer a simple question" accusation, will you be willing to engage in a test debate?
Please... do lemme know, and be sure that you tell all of us right here and now that you're willing, so it's on record!
Otherwise, keep your cake hole... well you know.
...rm your arbitrary exclusion of the valid G-d hypothesis is based entirely on your atheistic prejudices, the world-view you favor, and not upon sound scientific principles. Is it possible that there is a creator G-d? Is it possible that there is no creator G-d? The answer to both questions is "yes."
If you are an honest scientist rm, then you cannot exclude either explanation of nature without presenting evidence for that exclusion. The fact that you have abandoned the “open-ended search for-truth†frame of mind in favor of something else is more than "tangible"...
The responses from the atheists here is pretty sad. You react like fundamentalist Christians, the most extreme kind.
I know. Even though I tried to be nice to them by greeting both religious and non-religious, they still attack us.
It's difficult to discuss religious issue with some atheists.
Do you feel that people of other religions share this same non-unique personal relationship with the creator of the entire universe? Or is it something special and unique that only Christians have?
Christianity certainly is important/vital in a relationship to God, but as I understand it God can communicate with anyone according to Catholicism.
"The Divine readiness to grant assistance also to the heathen (see Denzinger, n. 1295, 1379) is a certain truth confirmed by the Church against the Jansensists Arnauld and Quesnel."
Later on the issue of Leonard Feeney the Holy Office stated
"The same in its own degree must be asserted of the Church, in as far as she is the general help to salvation. Therefore, that one may obtain eternal salvation, it is not always required that he be incorporated into the Church actually as a member, but it is necessary that at least he be united to her by desire and longing.
However, this desire need not always be explicit, as it is in catechumens; but when a person is involved in invincible ignorance God accepts also an implicit desire, so called because it is included in that good disposition of soul whereby a person wishes his will to be conformed to the will of God."
I don't believe I am inevitably better than an atheist. Not even in the areas where Christians said they were "better" in that survey. Presumably there are atheists more generous and intuitive than I. I'm certain many, maybe most, are better leaders than I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Now all we need is evidence that these beliefs are incorrect.
I expected the "it's not arrogance as we really are smarter and more capable than you people" answer.
It might depend on what Christians we mean. In the US anyway the Episcopalians, Presbyterian Church USA, and Greek Orthodox are, according to one source anyway, better educated than atheists. UCC is about the same as atheists.
Irreligious nations often do well at PISA studies, but the French don't do all that well while Singapore did pretty well. Gallup has Singapore scoring above the US on religiosity. Poland looks to have scored above Sweden on all three measures and above France in all measures excepting math.
In any event the statements were not even whether they were better than "most Christians." To repeat them.
"I am more intelligent than most people."
"I like to look at myself in the mirror."
"I can usually talk my way out of anything."
"I am more capable than other people."
"I am going to be a great person."
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Why are you singling out atheism here? I've never seen Christianity practiced without communicating with other humans so surely it is in the same boat. I know some of them pretend that there's more to it than that, but the stuff I can see is just as human-centered as anything else.
I'm judging things on their own premises here. Yes if you assume or only allow for atheism than religion is also just going by human communication. God will not grant anyone even a taste of Ultimate Truth, even after Death, because there is no God.
However if Christianity, or most any theism really, could be right what it's saying is there is an omniscient being and therefore all knowledge is known by someone or something. The Truth is therefore known and, if we gain access to it by God, knowable. Same with Moral Truth.
For me even if an atheist here could somehow totally undermine Christianity this would not make atheism appealing or inevitable. When I really looked into it atheism is just too unsatisfying to me. Maybe reality is unsatisfying, but as I said here if I can believe in a "Whole Truth", "Objective Reality", "Humans as more than biochemical machines" I will.
Last edited by Thomas R.; 06-25-2012 at 06:29 PM..
I know. Even though I tried to be nice to them by greeting both religious and non-religious, they still attack us.
It's difficult to discuss religious issue with some atheists.
stop being a hypocrite in a previous thread you are forcing your Jesus on jewish members and rfefusing to listen why they don't believe in you Jesus. in the same thread you told me you don't listen to atheists and then you come in here and whine that it is hard to discuss religious issues with them.
stop being a hypocrite in a previous thread you are forcing your Jesus on jewish members and rfefusing to listen why they don't believe in you Jesus. in the same thread you told me you don't listen to atheists and then you come in here and whine that it is hard to discuss religious issues with them.
I never forced any Jews to accept Jesus Christ at all. I just discussed and told them that according to "Messianic Jews", they consider themselves Jews. A Christian is a person who is baptised and accept Jesus Christ as his lord and saviour.
I myself as a Christian do not consider them Christian at all because they never attend church, nor do they celebrate Christmas and Easter.
Regards to saying that "I don't listen to any atheists". Yes, it's true I said that because that atheist on the other thread was unfortunately arrogant and attacked my religion.
Any non-Christian who is tolerant are more than welcome to discuss anything with me
Are we? Do you see atheism as (1) believing there is no God or (2) not believing there is a God? To me, it's believing there is no God, and I don't think we were born believing there is no God.
You were born with the instinct to breath, and desperately looking for a teat to suckle. The rest you learned, even if it was a complete fairy tale.
Thusly you are also saying that children born in the middle east are born believing in Allah. Which one is right?
Uhhhh, that would be the all the children born, they know of no gods, they don't even suspect such a concept, but are educated into the ignorance that their parents are well versed in.
Lack of evidence is not evidence. And what one person calls reasonable is not reasonable to another. Ignorance goes both ways.
You repeatedly search every pocket in your cloths, and you can't find your keys. What possible conclusion could a reasonable person come to? The evidence of that search clearly indicates "you don't have your keys", and the lack of evidence (keys) bears that out.
You were born with the instinct to breath, and desperately looking for a teat to suckle. The rest you learned, even if it was a complete fairy tale.
Thusly you are also saying that children born in the middle east are born believing in Allah. Which one is right?
Uhhhh, that would be the all the children born, they know of no gods, they don't even suspect such a concept, but are educated into the ignorance that their parents are well versed in.
According to you religion is a fairy tale, but for the majority of the world and in this nation it is not.
When I was born, I was born without any religion - then I got baptised as an infant and became Christian. However just because I was baptised does not mean I will go to heaven and paradise guaranteed unless I behave like a faithful and good Christian.
Allah means God in Arabic.
Muslims do not have different God than Jews and Christians. We all worship the same Abrahamic God, with slightly in different way.
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Shoot first...ask intelligent questions later??
