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Old 06-28-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,319,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Well then, some must be finding the evidence they need.



Genesis 3 answers your question. This world is broken because of original sin. A new world is coming for those that love God.
What about people who love god but are still dying? What about people who don't even know god? How does a child who knows nothing of god, sin, or even morality fit into this?
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,397 posts, read 12,698,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
What about people who love god but are still dying?
All people die physically, due to original sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
What about people who don't even know god?
Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen; men are without excuse. Romans 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
How does a child who knows nothing of god, sin, or even morality fit into this?
Christ died for all. Children are covered under God's mercy until they reach the age of accountability.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:13 PM
 
258 posts, read 206,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen; men are without excuse. Romans 1
How do you clearly see that which is invisible? If something is invisible I have a pretty good excuse not to be able to see it I would think.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,603 posts, read 11,630,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
All people die physically, due to original sin.

No they don't, they die physically because the physical part of their body wears out, it has reached the end of its physical use that has nothing to do with original sin or any kind of sin.



Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen; men are without excuse. Romans 1

Don't you just love the way an invisible god is supposed to be "clearly seen".. That statements about as clear as mud....


Christ died for all. Children are covered under God's mercy until they reach the age of accountability.
Your Christ didn't die for me, I'm not Christian, so I don't believe in your Christian religion or sacred book.


Isn't it amazing the arrogance of some Christians who think they assume that everybody believes the same as they do or at least they're supposed to, now how ignorant is that..
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Old 06-28-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,505 posts, read 2,319,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
All people die physically, due to original sin
.
Not provable


Quote:
Since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen; men are without excuse. Romans 1
If something is invisible, how is it clearly seen?

Quote:
Christ died for all. Children are covered under God's mercy until they reach the age of accountability.
What is that age? If all it says is the age of accountability and not a specific age, well then I still haven't reached that age. What you are suggesting is the age in which we become responsible. Well we all know that not everyone is responsible, but we also know that this age varies from one culture to another.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,073,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
All people die physically, due to original sin.
No, that is not why people died. Your claim proves Jesus doesn't have the ability to apply foresight, which is not very becoming for a god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Christ died for all.
There are sick people who have a "Messiah Complex" and think they are here to save the world. That doesn't mean they're gods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Children are covered under God's mercy until they reach the age of accountability.
And where does it say that in your scriptures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
How do you account for people who become believers as adults?
Many people are unable to grasp the complexities of life. They want to believe that there is something better, or that their life has a plan or some meaning to it, and they turn to religion as a crutch. People who are mentally healthy don't need religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I see reasonable, educated, successful adults make this choice routinely.
Intelligent people are not without flaws. The fact that a lawyer believes in a god is not proof of god's existence, rather it's proof that the lawyer is flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
A reasonable person would not continue pursung a god who gave no evidence.
Very good. That is why there are atheists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Well then, some must be finding the evidence they need.
And people can delude themselves easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Genesis 3 answers your question. This world is broken because of original sin. A new world is coming for those that love God.
That proves god doesn't exist. If a real god had created the world, there wouldn't be any problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
By the same token, billions of people throughout history have believed in God. A significant % of those are educated, intelligent people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Na'vi View Post
This is completely denied by the fact that billions of educated people have and do believe in god.
That is not proof of god. That is only proof that people are flawed and either unable to accept their fate in life, or unwilling to accept that they control their lives.

Millions of children believe in Santa Claus, but that doesn't mean there is one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Physical life, yes. Spiritual life, no. You might believe it's 99.99% certain, but that's not a fact.
But you never had a spirit until the Greeks came along. You either aren't aware, or refuse to see how other cultures influenced the Hebrews, who were in turn influenced by still others, and then christians have also been influenced by other cultures and religions -- the process is ongoing -- you can see it even now.

You don't believe christianity has evolved? I assure you, a true christian would never be on the internet, in part, because a true christian would never have a computer. The real christians, the original ones lived in communes and had no possessions. They spent all of their time looking after widows and orphans and the poor and the sick, and they would never have any time to pursue their own dreams or fantasies.

Realistically....

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Even that is not really a purpose. It's more like a natural process.
So what was Neanderthal's purpose? To paint on cave walls? What about Homo Habilis? Their job, their function, the sole reason they existed was to perpetuate their species. On the face of it, it would seem Neanderthal failed, as well as Homo Habilis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
There is no reason that any species has to survive.
No one said there was, yet that is what all living things are programmed to do -- survive until they can replicate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
In fact, humans will eventually become extinct.
But only because the Universe ends.

Suppose a rogue body disturbed the gravitation fields of planets, with the end result being the destruction of Earth as it slowly spirals into the Sun.

Humans can foresee that, and while they may not be able to prevent it, they can at least react to it, taking action to preserve not only human life, but nearly all life. Well, actually, humans have the capacity to save 99% of the life forms on Earth at present through DNA.

This is the only habitable planet that you know of, but not the only habitable planet. There are others, it's simply a matter of finding them.

By the time the Universe ends, humans in theory should have advanced enough to be able to foresee that, and make use of intergalactic travel, constantly moving from galaxy to galaxy until there are no more galaxies left that can escape the impending doom.

Reasoning...


Mircea
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Old 06-30-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,348 posts, read 28,421,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Suppose a rogue body disturbed the gravitation fields of planets, with the end result being the destruction of Earth as it slowly spirals into the Sun.

Humans can foresee that, and while they may not be able to prevent it, they can at least react to it, taking action to preserve not only human life, but nearly all life. Well, actually, humans have the capacity to save 99% of the life forms on Earth at present through DNA.

This is the only habitable planet that you know of, but not the only habitable planet. There are others, it's simply a matter of finding them.

By the time the Universe ends, humans in theory should have advanced enough to be able to foresee that, and make use of intergalactic travel, constantly moving from galaxy to galaxy until there are no more galaxies left that can escape the impending doom.
Well, at least that's an optimistic way of looking at it. Maybe humans can pull off something like this. But we will first need to find a way to ensure that we don't evolve into another species that is less intelligent than ourselves.

If we become less intelligent genetically, then we are doomed for exinction. It will be all over for us at that point.
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Serbia
4 posts, read 4,015 times
Reputation: 10
I like your point of view, but honestly I think we can't write our whole destiny. Some parts are written itself, and we are not able to influence them.

I believe, we are our own creators of the bigger part of our destiny. This life has some meanings, maybe one of the meanings is to die, or to live a life, we're social beings, we can't live alone, which leads us to next statement. One of the meanings is to live and hang out with other people, to create something in your life, or simple to find something that satisfy us.. life is full of meanings.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,039,332 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
.
Not provable
Not to mention that plants don't sin and yet die. and what about the bacteria and the Suns and the Universes? If we contaminated them all, then why would heaven not get contaminated... why did God allow the contamination?

Quote:

If something is invisible, how is it clearly seen?
I think it was meant that it should be understood, like the Hellenists used to say about invisible Zeus or we say about the fabric of space-time.
Quote:


What is that age? If all it says is the age of accountability and not a specific age, well then I still haven't reached that age. What you are suggesting is the age in which we become responsible. Well we all know that not everyone is responsible, but we also know that this age varies from one culture to another.
That's a good point, why should you be accountable for divine law when you yourself are not divine?


Still, my main point remains that religions are arrogant to their self-congratulatory believes... After all, if God has no cause then God can only give itself subjective purpose, then dictate his subjections to other less powerful or weaker sentient beings.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,780,576 times
Reputation: 9399
The joy of living is enough of a purpose..and has enough meaning- Those that say life has no meaning are ungrateful for being born...kind of like spoiled children who are well fed who spit out their food wanting more ice cream than mashed carrots.
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